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Dan Neil


Perryqhill said:
Exactly. Maybe Samed was brought in to add the quality and know how in midfield but obviously he's been injured. But then he would need to adjust anyway and he's been pretty horrific when he has played.

Browne is an average Championship midfielder it's not really the quality/experience we need to lead a young side.

As for Rigg you don't want to slag young players off but I can't recall him having any sort of positive input since back Novermber ish. I don't know what promises have been made but it's ridiculous we've persisted with him and even when he's 'rested' he's the first sub back on, even when Alexsic has a cameo and looks decent.
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Similar to Jobe at the end of last season in a lot of ways the end of this season also.. he looks miles off the pace but keeps getting picked...
 
chriswallace85 said:
That may be true, and I may ebe guilty of that myself. But by the same token, it must absolutely apply to Dan 'Liverpool are watching him ya kna' Neil. And he's a lot older than those two.
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He's 23 which is older but he's still learning and he's made progress this season. Or had until the last few games. Had he been absolutely quality or had anyone been absolutely quality - they'd have been taken off us by now.

If we aren't going to go and buy quality replacements then what do you do? There's a lot in the same bracket though - who have we really seen make great progress or show consistency over the season? I think the answer is probably no one. There's been tit bits from several.

I think we're at a point where unless there's a particularly weak championship season by parachute payment clubs there's too many who are injured, show fluctuating form etc and automatics will always he a struggle. Maybe to bring them on we need to add quality or maybe we need to move several on and reinvest. I'm not that keen to see this side at the top level though as we'd get hammered week in week out.
 
The only way Dan Neil will make it to the Premier League is if he is playing for a team that gets promoted, and he probably isn't good enough to get into one. Contract expiring in 2026 or not, no Premier League side is going to be making a move for him. He is 23, and patchy at Championship level. He had a really good run of form around Christmas, where he was our best player a few games in a row, but for the most part, he is an average Championship midfielder. I don't think we have given him the best chance to succeed this season, given the way we play, as I imagine we expected Samed to be playing that role, but it turns out that Samed was a laughably bad signing so he has had to do a job there.

But if players like Jack Clarke, a stand out player week in, week out in the Championship, struggle to get game time at that level, there is not a chance that Dan Neil would be able to cut it at that level.
 
Perryqhill said:
He's 23 which is older but he's still learning and he's made progress this season. Or had until the last few games. Had he been absolutely quality or had anyone been absolutely quality - they'd have been taken off us by now.

If we aren't going to go and buy quality replacements then what do you do? There's a lot in the same bracket though - who have we really seen make great progress or show consistency over the season? I think the answer is probably no one. There's been tit bits from several.

I think we're at a point where unless there's a particularly weak championship season by parachute payment clubs there's too many who are injured, show fluctuating form etc and automatics will always he a struggle. Maybe to bring them on we need to add quality or maybe we need to move several on and reinvest. I'm not that keen to see this side at the top level though as we'd get hammered week in week out.
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Totally agree, we are seeing a third mini league forming in front of of our eyes with the three clubs going up grapping the money then coming straight back down again and having even more money due to parachute payments going straight back up, rinse and repeat ....
 
Perryqhill said:
.
You've clearly bought into this "generational talent" bollocks with Jobe and Rigg. Keep on dreaming lad.
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This is the problem on here really isn’t it? We seemingly can’t just have good or solid championship players. They either have to be deemed generational talents and future internationals or shite, league one plodders.

Saying that some of these players are just steady away second division campaigners is taken by some as a major criticism when it’s just a realistic assessment of what they are. But some seem to think because they’re in the red and white of Sunderland and doing ok that they’re outstanding talents and destined for stardom. Momentary flashes of quality aside, I don’t see anyone at this point as playing significantly below their level just waiting to be picked up and ready to perform at a higher level.
 
Look at it a different way. Neil has his worst performance of the season and we get stuffed 3-0, which also happens to be our worst team performance of the season. He is one of our most important players, if not, the most important. I've heard fans say that "Rigg needs a rest" or "Bellingham needs a rest", but with Dan Neil a bad performance usually resorts to fans calling him out as not been very good. He's played more minutes than anyone else this year, and for a reason.

Get behind him and get behind the team. If we are going to somehow go up through these playoffs then Dan Neil will have to be fit and firing.
 
Windypants said:
Are you very, very old?
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He wouldn’t really need to be as Dan Neil realistically has about 3 or 4 seasons left to get himself and establish himself as a top flight player before the ship sails.

I think it unlikely as he doesn’t consistently perform with really meaningful control, purpose and influence at second division level. He’s steady away and can be classy but that’s enough to be top flight. What doesn’t help him is that he struggles most when the game is quick and he’s under pressure. That happens every week in the top flight
 
LRW said:
The only way Dan Neil will make it to the Premier League is if he is playing for a team that gets promoted, and he probably isn't good enough to get into one. Contract expiring in 2026 or not, no Premier League side is going to be making a move for him. He is 23, and patchy at Championship level. He had a really good run of form around Christmas, where he was our best player a few games in a row, but for the most part, he is an average Championship midfielder. I don't think we have given him the best chance to succeed this season, given the way we play, as I imagine we expected Samed to be playing that role, but it turns out that Samed was a laughably bad signing so he has had to do a job there.

But if players like Jack Clarke, a stand out player week in, week out in the Championship, struggle to get game time at that level, there is not a chance that Dan Neil would be able to cut it at that level.
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Different players have different attributes, which makes them more or less suited to certain leagues. Jack Clarke carried the ball past people for fun in the Championship, which made him one of the best players in the league. In the Premier League against high quality defenders, you just can't do that unless you are an elite, world class winger.

Also playing for one of the worst teams in the league, the majority of Clarke's game will be tracking men and defending, which again isn't where he's at his best.
 
brains said:
Look at it a different way. Neil has his worst performance of the season and we get stuffed 3-0, which also happens to be our worst team performance of the season. He is one of our most important players, if not, the most important. I've heard fans say that "Rigg needs a rest" or "Bellingham needs a rest", but with Dan Neil a bad performance usually resorts to fans calling him out as not been very good. He's played more minutes than anyone else this year, and for a reason.

Get behind him and get behind the team. If we are going to somehow go up through these playoffs then Dan Neil will have to be fit and firing.
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Spot on..
 
Sea to Shining Sea said:
This is the problem on here really isn’t it? We seemingly can’t just have good or solid championship players. They either have to be deemed generational talents and future internationals or shite, league one plodders.

Saying that some of these players are just steady away second division campaigners is taken by some as a major criticism when it’s just a realistic assessment of what they are. But some seem to think because they’re in the red and white of Sunderland and doing ok that they’re outstanding talents and destined for stardom. Momentary flashes of quality aside, I don’t see anyone at this point as playing significantly below their level just waiting to be picked up and ready to perform at a higher level.
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That's a bit harsh and don't feel as if I have that criteria.

However, I felt, especially early on that Dan Neil could become a prem player, he may still.
 
Coeus said:
That's a bit harsh and don't feel as if I have that criteria.

However, I felt, especially early on that Dan Neil could become a prem player, he may still.
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None of that was aimed at you. But it’s noticeable that’s the route these threads go down.

Neil might get there. Someone might take a chance on him or he might get there with us and be given a go. But unless he really improves I don’t see him being an influential top flight player. He’s more than capable at this level but not influential enough and it’d be rare that a neutral would select him as a stand out player in a fixture.
 
Sea to Shining Sea said:
None of that was aimed at you. But it’s noticeable that’s the route these threads go down.

Neil might get there. Someone might take a chance on him or he might get there with us and be given a go. But unless he really improves I don’t see him being an influential top flight player. He’s more than capable at this level but not influential enough and it’d be rare that a neutral would select him as a stand out player in a fixture.
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I agree, I keep expecting him to turn it up another notch and he hasn't yet imo.
 
Perryqhill said:
Exactly. Maybe Samed was brought in to add the quality and know how in midfield but obviously he's been injured. But then he would need to adjust anyway and he's been pretty horrific when he has played.

Browne is an average Championship midfielder it's not really the quality/experience we need to lead a young side.

As for Rigg you don't want to slag young players off but I can't recall him having any sort of positive input since back Novermber ish. I don't know what promises have been made but it's ridiculous we've persisted with him and even when he's 'rested' he's the first sub back on, even when Alexsic has a cameo and looks decent.
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Thing is, we have an obligation to nail all the technical side of stuff around the young players. If we dont they'll not realise their potential here and nick off for less than we could of got. Its all still back of a fag packet strategy imo
 
brains said:
Different players have different attributes, which makes them more or less suited to certain leagues. Jack Clarke carried the ball past people for fun in the Championship, which made him one of the best players in the league. In the Premier League against high quality defenders, you just can't do that unless you are an elite, world class winger.

Also playing for one of the worst teams in the league, the majority of Clarke's game will be tracking men and defending, which again isn't where he's at his best.
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Fair enough - I think those are all valid reasons why Jack Clarke hasn't done so well.

I just don't see, in Dan Neil's game, the level of quality that a Premier League team would need to see in order to sign him. Certainly not on a consistent basis. And at the age of 23 he should be showing a lot more if he was going to make it there.
 
LRW said:
Fair enough - I think those are all valid reasons why Jack Clarke hasn't done so well.

I just don't see, in Dan Neil's game, the level of quality that a Premier League team would need to see in order to sign him. Certainly not on a consistent basis. And at the age of 23 he should be showing a lot more if he was going to make it there.
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I think Neil would be a lot better suited to get into lower league PL teams and "do a job". But I do agree that he hasn't shown enough yet to convince me that he can be a high impact player, regularly playing in the PL. Even at 23, he is still young though and he has arguably been played out of position all season.

I'm almost certain that he will play in the PL at some point in his career, but exactly how good he will be at that level is still up for debate.
 
Bet Dan Neil is top of the man of the match thread. He's had more than one or two good games. We still have some good players but something is not right. Fatigue, poor mentality, wrong tactics or something we are not aware of? Perhaps like Watson our midfielders have already agreed to go to other clubs at the season end.
 
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