Air crash in Washington DC

[dangermows]

Don't understand all the hype/conspiracy patter. Looks like it's basically human error.

 

[TexasMackem]

Don't understand all the hype/conspiracy patter. Looks like it's basically human error.

Absolutely. It's a deeply tragic accident. I really feel for the families of the deceased listening to the president jumping on it to propagate his agenda against minorities. At least give them time to grieve man FFS.

 

[Lonz]

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This is quite good

As an atco, you have to trust that the pilot , when he says he has the plane in sight, he has it in sight. He's asked to fly VFR and there's no reason why he shouldn't. It's obviously common procedure here.

He is to pass behind, not infront, which , from the link , if he has the other plane in sight and is getting confused he isn't passing behind.
I don't work a tower - I do London TMA so I don't know how close helicopters get and look on radar - (id imagine they will look fairly close) - when going behind a landing plane , but it obviously worried the atco as he did reconfirm with the pilot ' have you seen the crj' to which he gets an affirmative.
I suppose if the atco was concerned and this situation looked closer than normal when helicopters pass behind landing aircraft ,in hindsight the atco could have given traffic - 'just confirm you have the crj in sight , less than 1 mile in your 9 0clock' but I , like the atco would have thought when the pilot said he had it in sight he did - it's dark , the planes have lights , how could he take the plane 6 miles away or whatever, and pass Infront of it when the helicopter pilot has said he will 'go behind', and miss one with lights really close to him?

Will have a good watch of this over my lunch. Thanks.

A helicopter or any other light aircraft would need to be concerned about wake turbulence as well you'd have thought? The more I'm reading about it, the more it's looking like the heli pilot just doesn't see the CRJ. Perhaps the plane lights have been obscured by other lights on the ground? I've only done the 5 hours of night flying required for my night rating an that's it but you can see fuck all up there if there's no lighting on the ground.

We're all catching our heads to wonder how this has happened.

 

[pRICK]

Reagan National is a horrible airport to take off and land.
I live by Dulles and refuse to fly from DCA if I don’t have to.

I'll be going in and out of Dulles for the foreseeable

 

[offmenut]

Will have a good watch of this over my lunch. Thanks.

A helicopter or any other light aircraft would need to be concerned about wake turbulence as well you'd have thought? The more I'm reading about it, the more it's looking like the heli pilot just doesn't see the CRJ. Perhaps the plane lights have been obscured by other lights on the ground? I've only done the 5 hours of night flying required for my night rating an that's it but you can see fuck all up there if there's no lighting on the ground.

We're all catching our heads to wonder how this has happened.

Like I said initially - I just can't see anything other than deliberate. He's speaking to ATC so I thought maybe he's flying properly, but if he didn't speak to ATC and was seen flying towards a plane then atc would alert the inbound with avoiding action, or the co pilot (if there is one ) would know something is amiss.

The RT clip I posted shows that he has seen the plane. The helicopter pilot is given the height and distance of the plane. He says he is flying VFR , and has seen it. there is no way , imo , that in the night they can't see a plane with it's lights coming towards and get confused.
The helicopter flies straight for the inbound aircraft and when asked by atc who reiterate ' have you seen the plane?' atc are ignored.

Planes flying full flaps inbound to land will have a bit of wake - but of course it would be easy for the helicopter pilot to fly a bit higher than the planes glide path and I assume what is done all the time. They shouldn't be crossing tracks at the same level

 

[dangermows]

Like I said initially - I just can't see anything other than deliberate. He's speaking to ATC so I thought maybe he's flying properly, but if he didn't speak to ATC and was seen flying towards a plane then atc would alert the inbound with avoiding action, or the co pilot (if there is one ) would know something is amiss.

The RT clip I posted shows that he has seen the plane. The helicopter pilot is given the height and distance of the plane. He says he is flying VFR , and has seen it. there is no way , imo , that in the night they can't see a plane with it's lights coming towards and get confused.
The helicopter flies straight for the inbound aircraft and when asked by atc who reiterate ' have you seen the plane?' atc are ignored.

Planes flying full flaps inbound to land will have a bit of wake - but of course it would be easy for the helicopter pilot to fly a bit higher than the planes glide path and I assume what is done all the time. They shouldn't be crossing tracks at the same level

Wooh hang on, you're suggesting some sort of suicide mission? Bloody hell. I've not seen much of this but news were saying there were two planes. Was he not confirming sight of another plane?

 

[PhilY]

Will have a good watch of this over my lunch. Thanks.

A helicopter or any other light aircraft would need to be concerned about wake turbulence as well you'd have thought? The more I'm reading about it, the more it's looking like the heli pilot just doesn't see the CRJ. Perhaps the plane lights have been obscured by other lights on the ground? I've only done the 5 hours of night flying required for my night rating an that's it but you can see fuck all up there if there's no lighting on the ground.

We're all catching our heads to wonder how this has happened.

It’ll be that and/or a blind spot on the black hawk.

A bit like PSA 182.

The investigation will do a simulation and that will reveal what the heli pilots could see. I don’t think military aircraft carry cockpit voice recorders so info will be limited.

 

[Nasser Butt-Head]

Absolutely. It's a deeply tragic accident. I really feel for the families of the deceased listening to the president jumping on it to propagate his agenda against minorities. At least give them time to grieve man FFS.

Despicable. The man needs sectioning.

Like I said initially - I just can't see anything other than deliberate. He's speaking to ATC so I thought maybe he's flying properly, but if he didn't speak to ATC and was seen flying towards a plane then atc would alert the inbound with avoiding action, or the co pilot (if there is one ) would know something is amiss.

The RT clip I posted shows that he has seen the plane. The helicopter pilot is given the height and distance of the plane. He says he is flying VFR , and has seen it. there is no way , imo , that in the night they can't see a plane with it's lights coming towards and get confused.
The helicopter flies straight for the inbound aircraft and when asked by atc who reiterate ' have you seen the plane?' atc are ignored.

Planes flying full flaps inbound to land will have a bit of wake - but of course it would be easy for the helicopter pilot to fly a bit higher than the planes glide path and I assume what is done all the time. They shouldn't be crossing tracks at the same level

Suicide mission? I mean ha'way?

I'm sure Trumpet would have been all over a person of different colour piloting the chopper.

 

[PhilY]

Like I said initially - I just can't see anything other than deliberate. He's speaking to ATC so I thought maybe he's flying properly, but if he didn't speak to ATC and was seen flying towards a plane then atc would alert the inbound with avoiding action, or the co pilot (if there is one ) would know something is amiss.

The RT clip I posted shows that he has seen the plane. The helicopter pilot is given the height and distance of the plane. He says he is flying VFR , and has seen it. there is no way , imo , that in the night they can't see a plane with it's lights coming towards and get confused.
The helicopter flies straight for the inbound aircraft and when asked by atc who reiterate ' have you seen the plane?' atc are ignored.

Planes flying full flaps inbound to land will have a bit of wake - but of course it would be easy for the helicopter pilot to fly a bit higher than the planes glide path and I assume what is done all the time. They shouldn't be crossing tracks at the same level

Or he simply was looking at the wrong plane?

It’s really difficult to judge distances in the dark, plus it’s near impossible to judge aircraft type if all you can see are three lights.

 

[Shinpad]

Trump when asked if he was going to visit the site replies . No what’s the site it’s only water ,what do you want me too do go swimming?
The bloke is vile

 

[offmenut]

Wooh hang on, you're suggesting some sort of suicide mission? Bloody hell. I've not seen much of this but news were saying there were two planes. Was he not confirming sight of another plane?

I just can't understand how he didn't see it.
He was flying VFR , told by the controller to cross subject the regional jet which was at 1200ft and passing the Woodrow bridge.
The helicopter pilot said he had seen the plane and then proceeded straight towards it.
The controller then went back in as was obviously a bit anxious just to confirm he had seen the plane and got no response.

It was either deliberate or the helicopter pilot was so incompetent he got confused and when crossing the glide path he mistook a plane which was 5/6 miles away for one which he had just been told previously was passing the Woodrow bridge.

He then didn't bother looking left and just flew straight across the glide path , perhaps looking right as even if he looked straight forward he would see something (as he was heading towards the plane crossways - with the inbound plane in his 10 o'clock coming left to right .

It just doesn't make any sense how he could not see the plane unless he was messing about and not looking on purpose.

 

[Hue Jorgan]

its coming out that Trump 'FIRED' The FAA chief and many staff just a week ago when he came into power. The tower was under staffed.

 

[offmenut]

Or he simply was looking at the wrong plane?

It’s really difficult to judge distances in the dark, plus it’s near impossible to judge aircraft type if all you can see are three lights.

It is - but how can you not see a plane which is coming towards you.? I said previous it was in his 10 o'clock , but flying towards it it's actually more like his 11 o'clock .
Planes have bright lights in a dark sky.
I can't understand how he didn't see this aircraft

 

[Hue Jorgan]

Just saw an interview with a 'mexican' ATC fella who wanted to remain anonymous, but he said we had to work for 6+ years to get this ATC gig, and only a small percentage make it through the process its HARD to get the job he said, not like on a whim and a prayer like Trump has stated, there are rumors of defamation against the Orange one

 

[offmenut]

its coming out that Trump 'FIRED' The FAA chief and many staff just a week ago when he came into power. The tower was under staffed.

It's got nothing to do with staffing or atc

It's a helicopter pilot flying towards a plane in the dark and for some reason not seeing the plane.

 

[PhilY]

It is - but how can you not see a plane which is coming towards you.? I said previous it was in his 10 o'clock , but flying towards it it's actually more like his 11 o'clock .
Planes have bright lights in a dark sky.
I can't understand how he didn't see this aircraft

Let’s see what the investigation reveals.

One thing I noticed from some of the videos is just how bright and how numerous the lights in the city are - and how close they are to the airport.

And/or is it possible that the CRJ was in a blind spot?

 

[offmenut]

Just saw an interview with a 'mexican' ATC fella who wanted to remain anonymous, but he said we had to work for 6+ years to get this ATC gig, and only a small percentage make it through the process its HARD to get the job he said, not like on a whim and a prayer like Trump has stated, there are rumors of defamation against the Orange one

I posted this previously.
You need to pass lots of tests to get through for an interview.
Then it's about 12-18 months of training on simulators. Then 12-36 months of training live.
Trump is so stupid - if you're not competent you don't pass. You can fail at any stage and a lot fail.
Inclusion and diversity is to make sure that people from diverse groups know about the job and that ATC isn't just advertised in some right wing rag . It's not about letting them do the job if they are incompetent over white males.
But you know that, I know that, everyone does except for trump and a few of his supporters

 

[PhilY]

It's got nothing to do with staffing or atc

It's a helicopter pilot flying towards a plane in the dark and for some reason not seeing the plane.

Who was on Visual Flight Rules (and therefore was responsible for avoiding other aircraft).

 

[offmenut]

Let’s see what the investigation reveals.

One thing I noticed from some of the videos is just how bright and how numerous the lights in the city are.

And/or is it possible that the CRJ was in a blind spot?

Have you seen the radar replay ?
The helicopter flies more or less straight for the plane - the plane is in his 11 o'clock .that's not a blind spot. A blind spot is approaching to cross and the plane is in his 7/8 o'clock

There are lights in the city , but not in the sky at 500ft - 1000ft where the helicopter pilot should be looking.
The plane is a couple of hundred feet above the helicopter when the helicopter heads straight for it , but I assume helicopters windscreens are huge with great visibility

 

[PhilY]

In the PSA182 mid-air crash, the investigation subsequently established that the second aircraft should have been visible for 80 seconds before PSA182 collided with it…..and none of the four people in the cockpit noticed it.