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Ollie Pope

mackembhoy said:
Stokes has been our worst batsman since McCullum took over, especially away from home where he averages a mere 24.
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Totally agree.

He’s either Brigadier Block (at the start of a knock) or plays an irresponsible shot and gifts his wicket.

I wish that he’d just play the situation
 

mackembhoy said:
I'm not going to lose any sleep if Pope was replaced, nor should he be VC and be guaranteed his place in the side.

But he's the best for the job he's been asked to do. Which is bat out of position at 3, in a position we've long struggled to find someone top class there.

Trott the best there in my time watching cricket. He averaged 45 there and Pope averages 42.

There is nobody in county cricket that would step up at bat number 3 at test level at this moment in time

Bohannon has the weight of runs behind him but is akin to Westley, Vince, Stoneman, Denly etc all good county players but not quite made to play test match cricket to a decent standard.

There really going to have to take a punt on someone, which why would they take a punt when the guy in the position averages an absolutely fine number batting 3.

Stokes has been our worst batsman since McCullum took over, especially away from home where he averages a mere 24.
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He wasn’t asked to play at 3. He made the call to Stokes himself and asked to play there iirc.

I think I read somewhere that if you take his score against Ireland out his average drops to 37. Now of course you can only play what’s in front of you but Ireland are the weakest Test playing nation he’s going to face.

If you look at the teams England are competing with at the top of the World Test rankings, he averages 15 against Australia and 24 against India.
 
Your question is who you are replacing him with. The implication of his selection in the summer is that Lawrence is still next in line and Jennings did reasonably in the Lions tour of the subcontinent so he’s presumably on the fringes as well. But both have played in more than a dozen tests, and neither averages beyond the mid 20s. Or you take a punt on an unknown. Are any of those obviously better options?

I’m with those who don’t think he’s bulletproof, just think he’s not yet doing badly enough for any of the replacement options to look attractive.
 
Inside Forward said:
How is this bloke bullet proof in the Test team?
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Because he is Surrey etc etc..

Because he will be the next captain no matter what.

We have no English captains for tests coming through.

So it will be Pope for 5 years in the hope by then we discover a good 50/50 Captain who might get promoted..but don't hold your breath.

We have a one day slogger as captain for the next 5 years don't worry about his averaged he comes over in TV interviews as a toff and that is all you need to captain England test team.
 
Inside Forward said:
He wasn’t asked to play at 3. He made the call to Stokes himself and asked to play there iirc.

I think I read somewhere that if you take his score against Ireland out his average drops to 37. Now of course you can only play what’s in front of you but Ireland are the weakest Test playing nation he’s going to face.

If you look at the teams England are competing with at the top of the World Test rankings, he averages 15 against Australia and 24 against India.
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Yeah if you manipulate anyone stats you can make a different point. He averages 38.23 without his Ireland knock

Duckett average opening under McCullum drops from 44.68 to 41.25 without his Ireland knock

If you take out Stokes best knock under McCullum he averages 31.66 instead of 34.53

Root averaged 39.67 at 3 till his knock on the flattest pitch of all time(where everyone moved up one too) and now averages 43.57

As @Fleagle says above. Whatever we all feel about Pope and his obvious limitations, there needs to be a credible alternative that would do better than him and there isn't.

Bohannon is the best number 3 in county cricket. Cox or Robinson if they batted at 3 might have a case to stake a place.

Cox and McKinney would be daft not to bat 3 next season, Robinson can't unless someone else takes the gloves.

This is really the list to look at to dictate who plays for England now. I can't see any batting number 3.

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mackembhoy said:
Yeah if you manipulate anyone stats you can make a different point. He averages 38.23 without his Ireland knock

Duckett average opening under McCullum drops from 44.68 to 41.25 without his Ireland knock

If you take out Stokes best knock under McCullum he averages 31.66 instead of 34.53

Root averaged 39.67 at 3 till his knock on the flattest pitch of all time(where everyone moved up one too) and now averages 43.57

Bohannon is the best number 3 in county cricket. Cox or Robinson if they batted at 3 might have a case to stake a place.

Cox and McKinney would be daft not to bat 3 next season, Robinson can't unless someone else takes the gloves.

As @Fleagle says above. Whatever we all feel about Pope and his obvious limitations, there needs to be a credible alternative that would do better than him and there isn't.

This is really the list to look at to dictate who plays for England now. I can't see any batting number 3.

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It’s like a cricketing version of @Frijj

Statistics all ower
 
mackembhoy said:
Yeah if you manipulate anyone stats you can make a different point. He averages 38.23 without his Ireland knock

Duckett average opening under McCullum drops from 44.68 to 41.25 without his Ireland knock

If you take out Stokes best knock under McCullum he averages 31.66 instead of 34.53

Root averaged 39.67 at 3 till his knock on the flattest pitch of all time(where everyone moved up one too) and now averages 43.57

As @Fleagle says above. Whatever we all feel about Pope and his obvious limitations, there needs to be a credible alternative that would do better than him and there isn't.

Bohannon is the best number 3 in county cricket. Cox or Robinson if they batted at 3 might have a case to stake a place.

Cox and McKinney would be daft not to bat 3 next season, Robinson can't unless someone else takes the gloves.

This is really the list to look at to dictate who plays for England now. I can't see any batting number 3.

You must be logged on to see external links
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If Lees stays and opens with Gay then it would be a good option for McKinney to move to 3 IMO.

Here is Michael Vaughan’s take on Pope:

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Inside Forward said:
If Lees stays and opens with Gay then it would be a good option for McKinney to move to 3 IMO.

Here is Michael Vaughan’s take on Pope:

You must be logged on to see external links
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As I said I'm not going to be sat complaining if they moved on from Pope.

He's so inconsistent and he makes balls looks completely unplayable. He's taken over the mantle from Bairstow for getting bowled through the gate.

Just I feel the need to look at the facts of how he's performed and go it's not as bad as it could be. Defending him even though I don't fully back him.

I do think it's brave that he stood up to bat 3 and yet made a decent enough job of it. He could have easily done what the player he has been compared to in Bell and hide at 5/6 and score runs coming in when 1/2 above him already sat on a ton.

The England setup ain't moving on from him unless there's someone doing the sort of numbers Pope himself did for Surrey but at 3.

Every batsman in the country should be shouting to bat 3. We've got a plethora of guys that can bat 4-6 because it's a far easier place to bat.

Same would be said for opening slot too, as the fact we played Lawrence instead should really be a kick in the bollocks to all of them. Even if that was terribly stupid and arrogant from us.
 
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The stats & averages argument is so dull.

The question is, when backs are to the wall, do you trust him to play a match winning or saving knock.... in the heat of battle... down under in Oz for instance.

I think unquestionably there is now ample evidence sadly that he can't be relied on.

He's far from alone in this of course, but at 3, he's the most high profile, because it is a key position.

It's why Ponting batted there.

It's why some people thought, and still think, Root should be there.
Aidan11 said:
Who would everyone have as an alternative to Pope if he was dropped?
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If Root wasn't apparently so against it, it really should be him.

It comes as no surprise to me that 2 (iirc) of his double hundreds now have come with him batting there. He's that good, that to me it is obvious that it has little to no detrimental effect to his performance, particularly now he doesn't have the added burden of captaincy, yet it could/would have a significant positive benefit to the team, as him batting there allows us to get another middle order batsmen in, where we are well catered for in different options.
 
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Salem Street South said:
The stats & averages argument is so dull.

The question is, when backs are to the wall, do you trust him to play a match winning or saving knock.... in the heat of battle... down under in Oz for instance.
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His 196 was pretty special against India, against a skilful bowling attack on a spinning pitch and won us the test match
 
Jack Torrance said:
His 196 was pretty special against India, against a skilful bowling attack on a spinning pitch and won us the test match
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This is partly why he’s so frustrating. As Nasser said it’s either feast or (mostly) famine with him. He will have the odd outstanding knock and you’ll think “right, time to kick on” but then there will be a dozen or so Tests in a row where he fails to get to 20.

I think I may have posted on the previous page that he has failed to last longer than 20 balls in something like 35% of his innings.

He still looks frenetic and panicked at the crease. After his 196 against India in his very next knock he looked like he hadn’t made a score in ages. It’s bizarre.
 
Salem Street South said:
That's great, what else did he do that series?

It's part of the problem, the pattern is one big knock, then a load of nothing.

Unfortunately for all the ability he has, he's just not consistent or reliable enough.
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Inside Forward said:
This is partly why he’s so frustrating. As Nasser said it’s either feast or (mostly) famine with him. He will have the odd outstanding knock and you’ll think “right, time to kick on” but then there will be a dozen or so Tests in a row where he fails to get to 20.

I think I may have posted on the previous page that he has failed to last longer than 20 balls in something like 35% of his innings.

He still looks frenetic and panicked at the crease. After his 196 against India in his very next knock he looked like he hadn’t made a score in ages. It’s bizarre.
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I agree tbf, not a huge fan but don’t think there is an obvious replacement. I think Stokes could bat there but depends how much he’s bowling
 
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