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Jack Clarke

Qwerty said:
He'll be desperate to play in the PL imo.
Perform well there and he moves to a club higher up the food chain.
I'd be amazed if he's here in September.
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No offence but disagree. Reasons:
  1. He's already done that, then come back to Division 3(!) with SAFC. And still got left out of the Playoff Final XI
  2. He's got plenty of money already and can move for EVEN MORE money if he waits 6/12m. Longer he stays, more cards he holds.
  3. Clearly loving his football. Honestly think the draw of getting to the Pl with us alongside Roberts, Cirkin, 09 that he's mates with will be massive.
  4. We're by far the greatest team the world has ever seen
 

You were begging the question, It is a logical fallacy.

They were indeed good enough, we moved forward, were promoted and even went on to make the play offs.

Unless you'd care to dispute the matter our squad is now worth many times its former value. Your opinion remains just that, unsupported, context and evidence free jaundiced nonsense.
 
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Vore said:
If Aji keeps fit for 20 games straight he's £15+

The Beale/BCB shit-show, combined with reticence to get a striker in has been understandably left folk somewhere between frustrated and furious, but end of the day even factoring that in the bunch in charge have done a remarkable job.

They were just quickly but with evidence pointing out how rapidly our squad has gone from ~15m value to ~100m value with little output, good business.
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Agreed - once Ballard comes back Le Bris has a big decision to make
 
Vore said:
No offence but disagree. Reasons:
  1. He's already done that, then come back to Division 3(!) with SAFC. And still got left out of the Playoff Final XI
  2. He's got plenty of money already and can move for EVEN MORE money if he waits 6/12m. Longer he stays, more cards he holds.
  3. Clearly loving his football. Honestly think the draw of getting to the Pl with us alongside Roberts, Cirkin, 09 that he's mates with will be massive.
  4. We're by far the greatest team the world has ever seen
Click to expand...
Hope ya right but can't see it
 
My gut feeling is Clarke wants to sign a new contract but Harte, as his agent, wants him on absolute top dollar. Turning up at Leeds and dropping tweets to Stoke the fires and up the ante on our board to bend over and give him what he wants. Let's hope it works and he signs.
 
Vore said:
If Aji keeps fit for 20 games straight he's £15+

The Beale/BCB shit-show, combined with reticence to get a striker in has been understandably left folk somewhere between frustrated and furious, but end of the day even factoring that in the bunch in charge have done a remarkable job.

They were just quickly but with evidence pointing out how rapidly our squad has gone from ~15m value to ~100m value with little output, good business.
Click to expand...
Tbh it might look good on paper as the old saying goes football isn’t played on paper if ten years time we are in the same league and haven’t moved forward obsession with progression then all of this on paper will have equaled square root of nowt. There’s definitely been loads that have fallen for the “model” pr speak when reality that’s the model of all clubs since forever. Fuck even giants of football like Man Utd have some form of the model in the past with youth setup and bringing along players like beckham and Ronaldo that they later moved on and reinvested the money. They are let’s be generous and say into year three of the five year plan of getting to the premier league so the model needs to start producing end results soon. Will selling Clarke speed that up? Or will we be ripping the biggest cog out of the machine and blowing a hole in the five year plan which we should be starting to see the end product of if they want to keep to their timetable, of course just like the model the plan is all bullshit as it’s a sport and not played on paper.
 
safcyank said:
Above I've added notes of the age at time of transfer and fee for reported for each. These numbers aren't all rock solid because I'm doing this really quick and half of them are guesses from media outlets or ITK rumors.

Given we spend very little on fees and invest mostly in very young players - why are you surprised that there are players who don't pan out or are still early in development? Are Speakman and Co expected to only sign future PL players for under $5 million? Should we not add depth to our squad even if they aren't potential world class players? We were in League One for a while. We have the youngest squad in the Championship by some distance. Context matters.

  • Ross Stewart: 350k ---> sold 9m
  • Patrick Roberts: Free ----> valued between 2m-5m
  • Trai Hume: 240k ----> valued between 5m - 10m
  • Cirkin: ? -----> valued between 2m - 7m
  • Clark: ? ------> valued between 15m - 25m
  • Dan Ballard: 2.3m ----> valued between 8m - 15m
  • Aji Alese: 590k ----> too soon, valued around 1m
  • Ekwah: ? ---> valued between 5m to 10m
  • Mayenda: 800k ----> too soon, but probably will be worth a couple million by end of season if he can get 7 to 9 goals
  • Bellingham: 1.5m ----> valued between 10m and 20m?
  • Seelt: 2m ----> too soon, high ceiling

And if you're including loans that didn't work out - what about Simms, Diallo, Broadhead?

In past years - here's been our reported spending on transfer fees:
2020-21 - 350k
2021-22 - 240k
2022-23 - 6m (promotion budget)
2023-24 - 12m (sold Stewart, Gooch, Lihadji, Pritchard for somewhere between 12m and 14m)

And so far this window, we've not spent anything on a fee.

I don't understand how people are so negative about our recruitment all the time, when the reality is our return on investment has been very, very good in recent years. I guess they actually just want the owners to splash cash like Ipswich? I wouldn't mind a bit more investment, but if it were my money I'd probably opt for a similar approach. What we've done relative to the lack of paying transfer fees has been excellent. We have gone from having a squad value of around 15m in 20/21 with our most valuable asset being Will Grigg to now being worth around 100m - with Jobe, Rigg, and Neil running our midfield. All while spending very very little on fees and offering wages that are probably less than average in the Championship.

Errr, settle down nownow
Click to expand...
Brilliant post mate, it's why I have no patience for the conspiracy theorist types who think the club don't want promotion.
 
Mackemansj1 said:
Tbh it might look good on paper as the old saying goes football isn’t played on paper if ten years time we are in the same league and haven’t moved forward obsession with progression then all of this on paper will have equaled square root of nowt. There’s definitely been loads that have fallen for the “model” pr speak when reality that’s the model of all clubs since forever. Fuck even giants of football like Man Utd have some form of the model in the past with youth setup and bringing along players like beckham and Ronaldo that they later moved on and reinvested the money. They are let’s be generous and say into year three of the five year plan of getting to the premier league so the model needs to start producing end results soon. Will selling Clarke speed that up? Or will we be ripping the biggest cog out of the machine and blowing a hole in the five year plan which we should be starting to see the end product of if they want to keep to their timetable, of course just like the model the plan is all bullshit as it’s a sport and not played on paper.
Click to expand...

Would it be fair to say though that ultimately it's played with paper? That is to say pound notes.
 
Mackemansj1 said:
Tbh it might look good on paper as the old saying goes football isn’t played on paper if ten years time we are in the same league and haven’t moved forward obsession with progression then all of this on paper will have equaled square root of nowt. There’s definitely been loads that have fallen for the “model” pr speak when reality that’s the model of all clubs since forever. Fuck even giants of football like Man Utd have some form of the model in the past with youth setup and bringing along players like beckham and Ronaldo that they later moved on and reinvested the money. They are let’s be generous and say into year three of the five year plan of getting to the premier league so the model needs to start producing end results soon. Will selling Clarke speed that up? Or will we be ripping the biggest cog out of the machine and blowing a hole in the five year plan which we should be starting to see the end product of if they want to keep to their timetable, of course just like the model the plan is all bullshit as it’s a sport and not played on paper.
Click to expand...
We'll find out soon enough. Personal opinion is with bring in forwards, hold on to Clarke, and make a good run at the top six.
 
safcyank said:
Above I've added notes of the age at time of transfer and fee for reported for each. These numbers aren't all rock solid because I'm doing this really quick and half of them are guesses from media outlets or ITK rumors.

Given we spend very little on fees and invest mostly in very young players - why are you surprised that there are players who don't pan out or are still early in development? Are Speakman and Co expected to only sign future PL players for under $5 million? Should we not add depth to our squad even if they aren't potential world class players? We were in League One for a while. We have the youngest squad in the Championship by some distance. Context matters.

  • Ross Stewart: 350k ---> sold 9m
  • Patrick Roberts: Free ----> valued between 2m-5m
  • Trai Hume: 240k ----> valued between 5m - 10m
  • Cirkin: ? -----> valued between 2m - 7m
  • Clark: ? ------> valued between 15m - 25m
  • Dan Ballard: 2.3m ----> valued between 8m - 15m
  • Aji Alese: 590k ----> too soon, valued around 1m
  • Ekwah: ? ---> valued between 5m to 10m
  • Mayenda: 800k ----> too soon, but probably will be worth a couple million by end of season if he can get 7 to 9 goals
  • Bellingham: 1.5m ----> valued between 10m and 20m?
  • Seelt: 2m ----> too soon, high ceiling

And if you're including loans that didn't work out - what about Simms, Diallo, Broadhead?

In past years - here's been our reported spending on transfer fees:
2020-21 - 350k
2021-22 - 240k
2022-23 - 6m (promotion budget)
2023-24 - 12m (sold Stewart, Gooch, Lihadji, Pritchard for somewhere between 12m and 14m)

And so far this window, we've not spent anything on a fee.

I don't understand how people are so negative about our recruitment all the time, when the reality is our return on investment has been very, very good in recent years. I guess they actually just want the owners to splash cash like Ipswich? I wouldn't mind a bit more investment, but if it were my money I'd probably opt for a similar approach. What we've done relative to the lack of paying transfer fees has been excellent. We have gone from having a squad value of around 15m in 20/21 with our most valuable asset being Will Grigg to now being worth around 100m - with Jobe, Rigg, and Neil running our midfield. All while spending very very little on fees and offering wages that are probably less than average in the Championship.

Errr, settle down now.
Click to expand...

Cheers mate, thanks for saving my fingers.
 
MurtonMark said:
Why do certain people keep quoting ages as if a bad signing is a good one, if the bad player happens to be young? That argument would hold if these were players signed for the development squad. But they’re not are they?

And what sort of argument - such as it is - opens with - “[this isnt] rock solid because I'm doing this really quick and half of them are guesses from media outlets or ITK rumors.”? :D:D

You’re another one though who has revealed the problem in the tone and language of your post. The “model” PR machine has so many people talking in terms of development of assets, “return on investment” etc - instead of in terms of team/squad building, it’s unbelievable.

There is NOT going to be a “net spend” league table. Nobody is going to get promoted on the basis of how much potential their ineffectual signings might hypothetically have in a future dreamworld, if things go right.
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Er, the same reason older players are worth less. Potential. Our approach is to invest time and money into young players to develop and sell at a profit. It's smart.

A players value isn't comprised solely of potential either. It's also current worth as a player that can help us win games. It's unfair to ignore either - which was why I conceded that the significant recruitment mistakes appear to be Dajaku for sure, then possibly Pembele, Hemir, and Rusyn. Because these last three are timid, likely slow to adapt and are just one year in, I'm not prepared to write them off as failures just because they haven't helped us win games. That would be stupid to ignore half of the equation.

This isn't complicated. We were in League One when Speakman and Co came. We are now considered possible promotion contenders in the Championship. Have they been perfect? The BCB fiasco, the third kit this year. But we've won games. We have dramatically increased the value of our squad while spending very little. Our reputation is now of a club that is progressive, youth forward, exciting to watch. Before we were a f*cking joke. Two words. Jack. Rodwell. It's so obvious to ALMOST everyone that they've done a good job, that it's only a very vocal 30% of the most depressing message board in the world that disagrees.
scott934 said:
Brilliant post mate, it's why I have no patience for the conspiracy theorist types who think the club don't want promotion.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I was being conservative. This is all not to mention we have Neil, Patto, and Rigg come through, played very young, signed to new contracts, while before we were selling our best prospects at the earliest opportunity for pennies (Maja, Asoro, Mumba, wasnt Paddy McNair also sold?)

I'm a real life curmudgeon but some folks on here just can't be happy ever.
 
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safcyank said:
Above I've added notes of the age at time of transfer and fee for reported for each. These numbers aren't all rock solid because I'm doing this really quick and half of them are guesses from media outlets or ITK rumors.

Given we spend very little on fees and invest mostly in very young players - why are you surprised that there are players who don't pan out or are still early in development? Are Speakman and Co expected to only sign future PL players for under $5 million? Should we not add depth to our squad even if they aren't potential world class players? We were in League One for a while. We have the youngest squad in the Championship by some distance. Context matters.

  • Ross Stewart: 350k ---> sold 9m
  • Patrick Roberts: Free ----> valued between 2m-5m
  • Trai Hume: 240k ----> valued between 5m - 10m
  • Cirkin: ? -----> valued between 2m - 7m
  • Clark: ? ------> valued between 15m - 25m
  • Dan Ballard: 2.3m ----> valued between 8m - 15m
  • Aji Alese: 590k ----> too soon, valued around 1m
  • Ekwah: ? ---> valued between 5m to 10m
  • Mayenda: 800k ----> too soon, but probably will be worth a couple million by end of season if he can get 7 to 9 goals
  • Bellingham: 1.5m ----> valued between 10m and 20m?
  • Seelt: 2m ----> too soon, high ceiling

And if you're including loans that didn't work out - what about Simms, Diallo, Broadhead?

In past years - here's been our reported spending on transfer fees:
2020-21 - 350k
2021-22 - 240k
2022-23 - 6m (promotion budget)
2023-24 - 12m (sold Stewart, Gooch, Lihadji, Pritchard for somewhere between 12m and 14m)

And so far this window, we've not spent anything on a fee.

I don't understand how people are so negative about our recruitment all the time, when the reality is our return on investment has been very, very good in recent years. I guess they actually just want the owners to splash cash like Ipswich? I wouldn't mind a bit more investment, but if it were my money I'd probably opt for a similar approach. What we've done relative to the lack of paying transfer fees has been excellent. We have gone from having a squad value of around 15m in 20/21 with our most valuable asset being Will Grigg to now being worth around 100m - with Jobe, Rigg, and Neil running our midfield. All while spending very very little on fees and offering wages that are probably less than average in the Championship.

Errr, settle down now.
Click to expand...
Excellence 👍
 
safcyank said:
Er, the same reason older players are worth less. Potential. Our approach is to invest time and money into young players to develop and sell at a profit. It's smart.

A players value isn't comprised solely of potential either. It's also current worth as a player that can help us win games. It's unfair to ignore either - which was why I conceded that the significant recruitment mistakes appear to be Dajaku for sure, then possibly Pembele, Hemir, and Rusyn. Because these last three are timid, likely slow to adapt and are just one year in, I'm not prepared to write them off as failures just because they haven't helped us win games. That would be stupid to ignore half of the equation.

This isn't complicated. We were in League One when Speakman and Co came. We are now considered possible promotion contenders in the Championship. Have they been perfect? The BCB fiasco, the third kit this year. But we've won games. We have dramatically increased the value of our squad while spending very little. Our reputation is now of a club that is progressive, youth forward, exciting to watch. Before we were a f*cking joke. Two words. Jack. Rodwell. It's so obvious to ALMOST everyone that they've done a good job, that it's only a very vocal 30% of the most depressing message board in the world that disagrees.
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amen.
I bought into the whole idea of a 5 year plan because i want my club to be financially secure, progressive, young and exciting to watch.
Last year was a shit show, but there will be bumps in the road working with young lads.
Mowbray was a great coach - it's why we played such great football.
But he had tactical limitations and some of the players were young and naive - especially later in games.
Le Bris looks like a good coach too, but seems a bit more tactically savvy with the modern game and a lot of these lads have another season under their belt.
If they get the remainder of this window done properly with new forward options and keep Clarke, i will be buzzing for the rest of this season.
We will have options all over the park to play a whole host of formations depending on the opposition, and the lads looks to be responding really well to Le Bris already. -and that's still a work in progress.
Make no mistake we are going places.
 
safcyank said:
.

Honestly, I was being conservative. This is all not to mention we have Neil, Patto, and Rigg come through, played very young, signed to new contracts, while before we were selling our best prospects at the earliest opportunity for pennies (Maja, Asoro, Mumba, wasnt Paddy McNair also sold?)

I'm a real life curmudgeon but some folks on here just can't be happy ever.
Click to expand...
I think you can make a pretty strong case that Rigg (pro contract) and Jobe wouldn't have signed for us, if not for the fact that we're prioritising development. To me it's like we have joined up thinking for the first time in forever, not just lurching from one terrible signing to the next.

McNair wasn't our youth player mind, got him from Manchester United along with Donald Love.
 
Personally, I think he seems happy to stay another season. I think these lads believe they can get promoted this season, and just need a striker in to make it happen. Saturday is a big match for me. Take Burnley to the sword and we will know there is nothing to fear in this league with this team. I don't see him leaving if we are top of the league. He will stay on for HMS Smash the League with Captain Jack Sparrow Clarke, First Mate 09, Jobe the Jeweller, and Little Chrissy Rigg. Fuck them all. 100 points ye Bastards.
 
scott934 said:
I think you can make a pretty strong case that Rigg (pro contract) and Jobe wouldn't have signed for us, if not for the fact that we're prioritising development. To me it's like we have joined up thinking for the first time in forever, not just lurching from one terrible signing to the next.

McNair wasn't our youth player mind, got him from Manchester United along with Donald Love.
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Ah, that's right. Still think he was our best player that year in the Championship, would have been hard to keep him dropping to League One after signing for Moyes in the PL.

Sorry to derail the Clarke thread for the 100th time. Let's keep Clarke and win the gd league
Latin Scout said:
Personally, I think he seems happy to stay another season. I think these lads believe they can get promoted this season, and just need a striker in to make it happen. Saturday is a big match for me. Take Burnley to the sword and we will know there is nothing to fear in this league with this team. I don't see him leaving if we are top of the league. He will stay on for HMS Smash the League with Captain Jack Sparrow Clarke, First Mate 09, Jobe the Jeweller, and Little Chrissy Rigg. Fuck them all. 100 points ye Bastards.
Click to expand...
These are the vibes needed
 
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