Sunderland railway station.

[PhilY]

Sunderland wasn’t built in a day

We’ll just have to accept that it’s good enough for the likes of us.

 

[PinzaC55]

I guess it depends on what you are proposing to do at station platform level?

If it is to open / remove the air structure above to make it more airy and as the image you showed then you will need to acquire the freehold and leasehold interests in order for leases/businesses to extinguished. Also consideration would need to be given to if any do any of the above ground structures actually impede the opening of any of the platforms? So do you need to demolish all of them before the platform can be utilised?

Alternatively if it’s just to tart the below ground station up as it is then I guess it doesn’t matter if the above ground concourse was built first or not albeit it would more cost effective to do it in one go. Hopefully as you have said in previous posts they’ve future proofed the existing design to enable future connection to the new platforms?

Sound likes the biggest issue has been securing funding and no doubt the options where do what they have or nothing at all?

Since the buildings above the tracks are on what I presume is Network Rail owned land that would be for them to sort out. But the biggest problem to the station is the fact it only has 2 physical platforms which are clogged up with Metro trains. The recently demolished south entrance was on the footprint of the previous building so it didn't interfere with the platforms or track since it was built when they were in place. I would have made my first priority restoring the original 4 platforms and tracks and then making an access from the existing south entrance to the reinstated platforms, probably an escalator. I'm not suggesting that the roof could or should be rebuilt as it was of course but Leeds had a 1960s station as ghastly as ours and they built a new overall roof to modern specs. Nothing technically difficult about this, just tubular beams. That would be the platform environment sorted out. I would then secure funding for a new south entrance etc. I'm not a civil engineer and may be spouting shite but that's the order I think I would tackle it in.

 

[OldNewtown]

That’s incredibly disappointing.

FYI - without that, economic development of the city will be restricted.

You do realise that the new South entrance is nothing more than the Metro station, for which it is perfectly acceptable. The Train station will be the new entrance at the North end.
Of course you do.
I accept your points in relation to the delay in providing the new North entrance and additional platforms as being less than ideal however finance is the driver, or not.
Personally I'm happy with what has been delivered, but more is required, and pressure should continue to be applied.

 

[PhilY]

Since the buildings above the tracks are on what I presume is Network Rail owned land that would be for them to sort out. But the biggest problem to the station is the fact it only has 2 physical platforms which are clogged up with Metro trains. The recently demolished south entrance was on the footprint of the previous building so it didn't interfere with the platforms or track since it was built when they were in place. I would have made my first priority restoring the original 4 platforms and tracks and then making an access from the existing south entrance to the reinstated platforms, probably an escalator. I'm not suggesting that the roof could or should be rebuilt as it was of course but Leeds had a 1960s station as ghastly as ours and they built a new overall roof to modern specs. Nothing technically difficult about this, just tubular beams. That would be the platform environment sorted out. I would then secure funding for a new south entrance etc. I'm not a civil engineer and may be spouting shite but that's the order I think I would tackle it in.

This makes perfect sense.

The only reason this wouldn’t be the preferred approach is that Nexus (who are supposed to represent Wearside as much as Tyneside let’s not forget!) do not want to see additional regional and national rail journeys from Sunderland because their policy is to channel rail passenger traffic through Newcastle Central.

For those of us living in Sunderland and wishing to travel south, this means either an average of two hours (one hour each way - wait time for metro, 30 min Metro journey time, time to walk to to correct platform and allowance for delays) or travelling to Durham (minimum 30 mins if driving, plus train station parking fees or 1 hr+ by bus).

It’s a disgrace for the people of Sunderland.

 

[Zimba]

Nonsense. The original station was knocked down when Labour were in power and they were still ploughing ahead with the Tory Beeching closures. Leamside was closed in 1991 and could have easily been reopened by Blairs Labour but they didn't. Labour don't give a flying f*** about Sunderland or the North East.

Leamside doesn't serve Sunderland City Centre, so not sure what this has to do with the station.

The f**king of Sunderland's rail system started with the Germans and has been continued by all governments since.
Nexus are Newcastle based and have no real interest in Sunderland, I was on the metro yesterday and there were 20 minute gaps between trains at crucial times when people were travelling to and from the game. Coincidence, f**king mags!!!
Good thing about future investment is that the new North East combined authority will have a lot of money for transport investment and it is much more likely that the north entrance and platform changes will come, along with getting the metro to Washy and a chord for direct metros from Sunderland to South Shields.
Nexus will not be able to block anything in future.

There is also a realistic chance of some Trans Pennine trains to/from the north west being rerouted along the Durham coast and therefore serving Sunderland.

A better subterranean environment at the station is important but the current set up will not stop the studios coming to the Wear or any other major investment planned or ongoing.

However, the new entrance is wonderful compared to what it has replaced, which was a hovel.

Just accept it as phase one and embrace it.

The Washington plans is just typical Nexus and wanting the Metro to go everywhere when it's not the right thing to go there, having a Metro to the outskirts of Washington just doesn't make sense, it should be national rail like the Northumberland Line but heading to South to places like Darlington, Middlesbrough or Durham.

You'd be mad to use the Metro from there to Sunderland, in most parts of Washington, because when your on a bus to Sunderland to get to the station, ie. the 56, why bother getting off as it's much easier and quicker and stay on all the way.

Logon or register to see this image

Something like the below would be much more useful, with a brand new Sunderland Parkway station to the South which has a London train, a Birmingham train and a Manchester train which some continue to Sunderland instead of Newcastle and then a local Northern service 3 TPH running from Newcastle via the Leamside down to somewhere and the new South Shields to Sunderland line continuing to the new Sunderland Parkway station.

It would be by far the most useful service than a confined loop which takes people to guess where, Newcastle. Getting the Leamside Line down to Ferryhill should be top priority though then working on getting the Sunderland branch done after (it's harder to do).

 

[PhilY]

You do realise that the new South entrance is nothing more than the Metro station, for which it is perfectly acceptable. The Train station will be the new entrance at the North end.
Of course you do.
I accept your points in relation to the delay in providing the new North entrance and additional platforms as being less than ideal however finance is the driver, or not.
Personally I'm happy with what has been delivered, but more is required, and pressure should continue to be applied.

It certainly looks that way but it has been billed as the new railway station and it has been claimed that it is ‘great’.

The ‘new railway station’ north end is just cosmetic if they aren’t addressing platform capacity. A ‘tarting up’ exercise and nothing more.

Look, I appreciate these things are expensive and complicated. I’ve been involved in some myself elsewhere.

However, I do not understand why our Council is not screaming from the rooftops about the regional Public Transport Executive (Nexus) actively attempting to thwart the development of rail connections (which needs capacity) in Sunderland given how important direct rail connections are to economic development. This state of affairs has been the same for years and it sounds like the Council is going to allow this to continue for the next 10 years because they’ve accepted funding for a plan which does not deliver greater platform capacity.

Don’t dare complain on here though because you’ll get shouted at by people who may well be from Sunderland and possibly even working for the Council / other public sector telling you to be grateful for what you’ve got.

It’s all very Oliver Twist!

 

[Fleagle]

The city in general Is, absolutely, but the capacity of the railway station (which is essential in order to have more links with the rest of the region/nation) hasn’t moved one inch.

Nexus also had and have zero interest improving Sunderland’s direct rail links with the rest of the region/country. In fact they actively oppose it.

Their policy is to channel rail passengers through Newcastle Central. While this is arguably understand for northbound journeys from Sunderland (although it still means non-direct services which are proven to be less attractive to customers than direct services), it’s barmy for southward travel (which is 75% of the the rest of the UK) because it adds a minimum of 35 minutes on to each and every journey - and in reality it’s more like a practical addition if 50 mins to allow time for the connection (particularly is travelling on ‘Specified Train Only’ tickets (ie advance) which are the cheapest).

That’s not necessarily true. The direct LNER weekday service via Newcastle Is actually slightly quicker than the Grand Central ones being scheduled to do the journey in just under rather than just over 3 1/2 hours. It’s having to change trains, either way, that makes the journey a pain in the arse.

 

[PhilY]

Logon or register to see this image

Something like the below would be much more useful, with a brand new Sunderland Parkway station to the South which has a London train, a Birmingham train and a Manchester train which some continue to Sunderland instead of Newcastle and then a local Northern service 3 TPH running from Newcastle via the Leamside down to somewhere and the new South Shields to Sunderland line continuing to the new Sunderland Parkway station.

It would be by far the most useful service than a confined loop which takes people to guess where, Newcastle. Getting the Leamside Line down to Ferryhill should be top priority though then working on getting the Sunderland branch done after (it's harder to do).

Now THAT would be useful for the city of Sunderland!

In fact, it would be a game-changer for the city’s economy.

That’s not necessarily true. The direct LNER weekday service via Newcastle Is actually slightly quicker than the Grand Central ones being scheduled to do the journey in just under rather than just over 3 1/2 hours. It’s having to change trains, either way, that makes the journey a pain in the arse.

The one direct service a day which is purely abstractive? That one?

The one that’s on and off the timetable whenever there’s an application by GC to improve their services.

We all know what that service does and why it’s there .

In fact, I’ve just looked and i can’t see it listed for tomorrow. Is it still running?

 

[Zimba]

Now THAT would be useful for the city of Sunderland!

In fact, it would be a game-changer for the city’s economy.

It would benefit the whole region as it would open paths on the current ECML as the trains are diverted on the Leamside, so we could have more trains heading up here and could do stuff with places like Chester Le Street with it's 2 hourly service, or link the two lines at Aycliffe so there's a new Bishop Auckland to Durham / Newcastle / Sunderland services depending where you wanted to send them.

They're not Metro lines though so Nexus aren't interested.

 

[PhilY]

It would benefit the whole region as it would open paths on the current ECML as the trains are diverted on the Leamside, so we could have more trains heading up here and could do stuff with places like Chester Le Street with it's 2 hourly service, or link the two lines at Aycliffe so there's a new Bishop Auckland to Durham / Newcastle / Sunderland services depending where you wanted to send them.

They're not Metro lines though so Nexus aren't interested.

Out of interest, do you know why there doesn’t seem to be much appetite to upgrade the Durham Coast line?

I’m sure those on this board from Hartlepool / Teesside etc would love a better service on that route.

 

[Deleted member 55308]

It’s much much better. Looks very impressive walking to it, and it’ll be even better when the big hall is fitted out. Permanent security staff inside on patrol and other benefits .

 

[Zimba]

Out of interest, do you know why there doesn’t seem to be much appetite to upgrade the Durham Coast line?

I’m sure those on this board from Hartlepool / Teesside etc would love a better service on that route.

Not a clue tbh, probably down to the North East been petty and it benefits 'the others'. ie Teesside don't want people going to Newcastle, Newcastle don't want people going to Teesside and so on and it serving so little of Co. Durham that they just don't care. It badly needs someone like SENRUG who are annoying to councillors and the train operators that it's easier to just do it to shut them up. Love their passion and they got the Northumberland Line imo.

 

[Fleagle]

Now THAT would be useful for the city of Sunderland!

In fact, it would be a game-changer for the city’s economy.

The one direct service a day which is purely abstractive? That one?

The one that’s on and off the timetable whenever there’s an application by GC to improve their services.

We all know what that service does and why it’s there .

In fact, I’ve just looked and i can’t see it listed for tomorrow. Is it still running?

Oh yes, granted, it is pretty much a fiction in practice. Especially as I understand it in the morning when it is a complete fantasy. But it nevertheless has a timetabled pathway, which is plausible, and is a reminder that the real problem with the route south Is that it’s not that great either with speed restrictions and capacity issues at points on the DCL and on the route from Eaglescliffe to Brompton that mean it isn’t a no brainer that would be the best way to run direct services.

 

[PinzaC55]

Leamside doesn't serve Sunderland City Centre, so not sure what this has to do with the station.


It would be by far the most useful service than a confined loop which takes people to guess where, Newcastle. Getting the Leamside Line down to Ferryhill should be top priority though then working on getting the Sunderland branch done after (it's harder to do).

You said "Leamside doesn't serve Sunderland City Centre, so not sure what this has to do with the station.". @Boris Bear brought this up in his usual attempt to make a political point. However the Leamside Line is very relevant because together with the Sunderland - Penshaw line it allowed southbound trains from Sunderland to access the ECML at Durham or Ferryhill without going down the low speed Durham Coast line and without using the congested line via Newcastle.

You then said "Getting the Leamside Line down to Ferryhill should be top priority though then working on getting the Sunderland branch done after (it's harder to do).

Apart from the fact you are completely contradicting yourself this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Reopening the Leamside Line would be a huge project now and I don't think it will be done in my remaining lifetime. Hylton to Penshaw is 3 miles of disused trackbed with the only obstruction the road tunnel at Hylton though that's a major problem and expensive to correct.

 

[Bloke next door]

Out of interest, do you know why there doesn’t seem to be much appetite to upgrade the Durham Coast line?

I’m sure those on this board from Hartlepool / Teesside etc would love a better service on that route.

The second platform at Hartlepool is opening soon. Once it does it will shave a few minutes off grand central times to London apparently.
There’s a new fast service being introduced every two hours that will just be Boro, Stockton, Hartlepool, Sunderland, Newcastle.
Granted needs a full upgrade, but improvements are being made.

 

[PhilY]

The second platform at Hartlepool is opening soon. Once it does it will shave a few minutes off grand central times to London apparently.
There’s a new fast service being introduced every two hours that will just be Boro, Stockton, Hartlepool, Sunderland, Newcastle.
Granted needs a full upgrade, but improvements are being made.

That’s really good to hear, thank you.

 

[PinzaC55]

Out of interest, do you know why there doesn’t seem to be much appetite to upgrade the Durham Coast line?

I’m sure those on this board from Hartlepool / Teesside etc would love a better service on that route.

It's not true that there is no appetite to upgrade the Durham Coast line. In recent years it has been completely resignalled and new track laid and the second platform at Hartlepool will soon be open. The problem is that when it hits Sunderland conventional trains have to fight for space with Mickey Mouse Metro trains.

 

[Zimba]

You said "Leamside doesn't serve Sunderland City Centre, so not sure what this has to do with the station.". @Boris Bear brought this up in his usual attempt to make a political point. However the Leamside Line is very relevant because together with the Sunderland - Penshaw line it allowed southbound trains from Sunderland to access the ECML at Durham or Ferryhill without going down the low speed Durham Coast line and without using the congested line via Newcastle.

You then said "Getting the Leamside Line down to Ferryhill should be top priority though then working on getting the Sunderland branch done after (it's harder to do).

Apart from the fact you are completely contradicting yourself this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Reopening the Leamside Line would be a huge project now and I don't think it will be done in my remaining lifetime. Hylton to Penshaw is 3 miles of disused trackbed with the only obstruction the road tunnel at Hylton though that's a major problem and expensive to correct.

I'm not sure what the benefits are to Sunderland without the line heading South. There's houses in the way if heading North aswell. I'd wouldn't be surprised if that 3 mile cost as much as the whole of the rest of the Leamside line as I'm far as I'm aware they own the land and there's no obstructions anywhere, happy to be corrected on that though.

Being honest though, I wouldn't be surprised if they do all these nice plans and their real aim is to build the Metro from Washington to Pelaw only and nothing else gets done, citing every excuse in the book going but they never really had any intention to build the bit between Washington and Sunderland. Then at the same time announce that there's no need for the extra platforms at Sunderland the Northern entrance is scrapped, instead we're going to build some bus lanes instead.

 

[Kubicki85]

Leamside doesn't serve Sunderland City Centre, so not sure what this has to do with the station.



The Washington plans is just typical Nexus and wanting the Metro to go everywhere when it's not the right thing to go there, having a Metro to the outskirts of Washington just doesn't make sense, it should be national rail like the Northumberland Line but heading to South to places like Darlington, Middlesbrough or Durham.

You'd be mad to use the Metro from there to Sunderland, in most parts of Washington, because when your on a bus to Sunderland to get to the station, ie. the 56, why bother getting off as it's much easier and quicker and stay on all the way.

Logon or register to see this image

Something like the below would be much more useful, with a brand new Sunderland Parkway station to the South which has a London train, a Birmingham train and a Manchester train which some continue to Sunderland instead of Newcastle and then a local Northern service 3 TPH running from Newcastle via the Leamside down to somewhere and the new South Shields to Sunderland line continuing to the new Sunderland Parkway station.

It would be by far the most useful service than a confined loop which takes people to guess where, Newcastle. Getting the Leamside Line down to Ferryhill should be top priority though then working on getting the Sunderland branch done after (it's harder to do).

This is actually a really good idea tbh. I'd maybe add that 'blue line' going having services to the Washington station too. Would link the up to the rest of Sunderland & South Shields.

It seems the Washington Loop will probably happen at some point though, the easy and cheaper option.

 

[PinzaC55]

I'm not sure what the benefits are to Sunderland without the line heading South. There's houses in the way if heading North aswell. I'd wouldn't be surprised if that 3 mile cost as much as the whole of the rest of the Leamside line as I'm far as I'm aware they own the land and there's no obstructions anywhere, happy to be corrected on that though..

What houses , where ? There are no houses built on the Leamside trackbed or Hylton to Penshaw. There's one at Offerton but it's clear of the trackbed and so is the former Coxgreen station