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The ref (see PGMOL thread)

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Dick Fitzwell said:
So consistency in the same game can’t happen???? Really, even you can full believe that one, ok so say we believe you there what about the missed incidents such as Coburn elbow and attempted headbutt, Greenwood’s studs up challenge and the dive for a pen, Crooks constantly fouling Clarke and shirt pulling, Carrick entering the field. Oneins push in the box, the foul on him in the build up to the 3rd goal?
Seems to be a running theme there
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Every foul and every instance is seen from better or worse angles and has better or worse views and all have to be given in spilt seconds.

Consistently will never happen even in same game, because all fouls are different, every game you have different arguments about the same foul some saying it was some saying it isn’t, and that is even after replays.

Of course with one look and split seconds to decide some fouls are going to look worse or better than they actually are, happens every single game, it’s not a exact science.
 

Father Jack Hackett said:
Whilst I agree, the dissent rule really should be black and white and easily to compare. You either receive a booking for swearing towards the officials or you don’t?
I fully agree about handballs and tackles as every one is different but you either swear towards an official or you don’t, it’s a conscious action.
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I see what you saying mate, and agree it’s more easier to be consistent with dissent than fouls so do see that point.

But it’s still not as black and white as you make out, as there will be always be different levels of dissent in terms of aggression
 
Dick Fitzwell said:
So consistency in the same game can’t happen???? Really, even you can full believe that one, ok so say we believe you there what about the missed incidents such as Coburn elbow and attempted headbutt, Greenwood’s studs up challenge and the dive for a pen, Crooks constantly fouling Clarke and shirt pulling, Carrick entering the field. Oneins push in the box, the foul on him in the build up to the 3rd goal?
Seems to be a running theme there
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This. Fair enough game-to-game and individual to individual but minute-to-minute? Come on.

If the yellows had been the other way round and Neil had jumped into the tackle on a booking (however much I didn’t agree with the first) then fair enough, it’s all on Neil but, Greenwood actually does that and the referee is basically telling us and the players that what Neil said is a more serious offence than that Greenwood challenge which is very nasty if it makes contact (as Neil’s would have been).

This is wholly unacceptable
 
redandwhiterob said:
They are just separate incidents which he has seen from different angles. Do you think he's cheating? What else would be his motive for giving some and not others?
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I don’t know that’s the point. Why would he give some yellow cards for descent and not others. Why does Robert’s get cautioned for a pull back but not the boro player. Why does the boro keeper get protected but Patto doesn’t. That’s the whole point around consistency. If it’s one or even two instances ya can understand it. But it was consistently inconsistent is the point.
 
Mowgli said:
Consistency with regards to time wasting and dissent is achievable though. They just choose for it not to be.

Hes allowed others off in the same game for shouting fuck off at him
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Like I said to the other guy, I agree it’s certainly easier to be more consistent with dissent than fouls, but there is still varying levels of dissent and abuse so there will never be true consistency with that either, unless you know exactly what is said each time.
 
Voice of fair play said:
I see what you saying mate, and agree it’s more easier to be consistent with dissent than fouls so do see that point.

But it’s still not as black and white as you make out, as there will be always be different levels of dissent in terms of aggression
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I agree mate, absolutely but let’s be honest, we can all see the level of aggression there which, is minimal at best. If that is the rule then fair enough, he walks but it has to be upheld every time this bloke now sets foot onto a pitch.
Swearing so very black and white whereas I completely agree aggression isn’t.
An extremely aggressive act took place about 30 seconds later as well but that’s all entirely different issue.
 
Voice of fair play said:
I see what you saying mate, and agree it’s more easier to be consistent with dissent than fouls so do see that point.

But it’s still not as black and white as you make out, as there will be always be different levels of dissent in terms of aggression
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I have no problems,with refs judgements re fouls 99% of the time.
I genuiinely believe they give what they see at the time from the angle they have and the speed it happens. All fans think that they get more fouls against their team

I DO have a serious problem with a referee acting in a totally unprecedented way and expecting players to anticipate that and both you and red and white rob have not addressed that issue.
 
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Wearside Wanderer II said:
Haven’t seen any impartial views of the dickheads performance? Any knocking about.
He was f***ing shocking, hope the club put in their report how he has Boro tattoo on his bawsack.
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If this was Liverpool, Man Utd or their ilk, it would be talked about well into the international break with lip-readers involved the lot. As it is, already forgotten about.
I get the Premier League is the jewel in the crown but, even that is nowhere near even with regards to coverage of terrible decisions.
They were still going off it about Liverpool yesterday and will no doubt today when they play whereas Brighton were clearly done in 3 games last season (and 3 times in a single game v Tottenham) and - an apology from Webb.
Mowgli said:
Neil deserves credit for not lamping the moron.

I'd have lost my head tbh.
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You could see there was no outward show of anger nor aggression even as he was waking off and the fourth official was there - he was just asking what it was for.
He’s either schizophrenic or the ref is an egotistical prick. I know which one I’m going for.
 
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wicketkeeper said:
I have no problems,with refs judgements re fouls 99% of the time.
I genuiinely believe they give what they see at the time from the angle they have and the speed it happens. All fans think that they get more fouls against their team

I DO have a serious problem with a referee acting in a totally unprecedented way and expecting players to anticipate that and both you and red and white rob have not addressed that issue.
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You do have a problem with the first sentence as seen you argue and have a problem with it at least a 100 times!!

So as much as I can see your point in the second sentence, you simply lying about not having a problem with your first sentence.
 
I know the game is entirely different these days but THIS is the reaction of someone who has been sent off for an aggressive act. Compare that to Dan Neil merely asking the fourth official what it was for. Just for the ones who were claiming he was running up to the ref screaming and waving his arms around in a belligerent manner last night:

You must be logged on to see media items
 
Voice of fair play said:
You do have a problem with the first sentence as seen you argue and have a problem with it at least a 100 times!!

So as much as I can see your point in the second sentence, you simply lying about not having a problem with your first sentence.
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I do not think that is correct. Check my posts on this game and you will see that not once have I criticised the ref for his interpretation of fouls although others have pointed them out.



What I have focused on is the fact that this referee in sending off Neil has acted in a virtually unprecedented way and some like yourself have blamed the player for not anticipating that
 
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I agree that the ref had a nightmare yesterday. Dan Neil has to take his share of the blame though. Already being on a yellow, challenging a ref with swearing is risky. I think it needs to be made black and white, right across the football league though. 'If you approach the referee with foul language' you WILL be booked. Part of the problem is lack if consistency. I also think Dan Neil might have assumed that being at home in front of a huge support, the ref probably wouldn't have had the balls to do it.
 
Dobblemackem said:
I don’t know that’s the point. Why would he give some yellow cards for descent and not others. Why does Robert’s get cautioned for a pull back but not the boro player. Why does the boro keeper get protected but Patto doesn’t. That’s the whole point around consistency. If it’s one or even two instances ya can understand it. But it was consistently inconsistent is the point.
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As I said before they are just different incidents seen from different angles. Just cos one was given doesn't mean the other needs to be. Incidents need judging individually. Referees will be the honest people in the stadium where as players and fans would argue black is white if it benefitted there team
 
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