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The ref (see PGMOL thread)

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HettonSAFC said:
Intent makes it a red for me. His foot was off the ground and studs were up. His foot went through his legs. Any connection and he was off and a deserved red. Very lucky.
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HettonSAFC said:
His foot went two foot though his legs and caught him with his trailing leg foot. A lunge off the he ground and studs up. If it was on one of ours I’d say the same. Very lucky. Watch it.
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I don't think there needs to be contact for it to be a red. I think it's the action of doing something that endangers the safety of an opponent that is the offence.

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Watching it again he's even off the deck also as he lunges in and keeps his right foot up showing his studs with a straight leg nowhere near the ball, which we all know he shouldn't be doing so why would he do it? As I said, I don't think players even need to make contact but if Neil did make contact then all his weight would be going through his raised foot so you can imagine what would happen if he caught a standing leg.

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The rule is below

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.
 
Sporty said:
Aye the ref was shite as Boro should have had at least 1 yellow before Neil got his 1st but that was just f***ing stupid from Neil already being on a yellow (again from a daft needless challenge with raised foot showing studs). I know Mowbray has commented on it but I'm not sure it's as simple as a frustrated throwaway "That's a f***ing foul" comment given the gesturing and then initial approach to the ref from Neil as what was said exactly?

You can see the ref points at Neil (it's a goal kick so he's not pointing for a corner) and then sweeps his arm to the side so is the ref telling Neil to go away? Neil kept coming towards the ref so the ref got out his yellow before Neil got to him.

You can see Neil's initial reaction more clearly in the live Youtube gif clip (is this the initial "f***ing foul" comment?) and the ref pointing. The 2nd gif also shows the ref's sweeping arm action but then he seems to react to Neil right after so what did Neil also say at that point to get a reaction like that?

For all we know Neil could have said summit else when the ref told him to go away. I doubt a player is going to admit it if he rightly sent off for what he said as he's be heaping all the blame on himself. Does the ref's report include what was said? It's just a shame O'Nien as a Captain especially didn't grab Neil when he was near to Neil starting to complain.

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I think he thinks Neil is walking aggressively towards him. He maybe didn't consider Neil was heading back to his position on the pitch. It's an awful decision. No game would finish with 11v11 if that's a yellow.
 
Sporty said:
I don't think there needs to be contact for it to be a red. I think it's the action of doing something that endangers the safety of an opponent that is the offence.

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Watching it again he's even off the deck also as he lunges in and keeps his right foot up showing his studs with a straight leg nowhere near the ball, which we all know he shouldn't be doing so why would he do it? As I said, I don't think players even need to make contact but if Neil did make contact then all his weight would be going through his raised foot so you can imagine what would happen if he caught a standing leg.

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The rule is below

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.
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👍shows it perfectly. How anyone can argue with that I really don’t know….
 
ajthemackem said:
:lol::lol:

Players must keep their arms by their sides when they look at the ref. :lol:
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Sporty said:
Conjecture by yourself then if you're saying that nothing there justified more than a word in the ear.

How do you know exactly what was said by Neil as it looks to me that it was more than what Mowbray said it was. Do you know what the ref possibly said to him as why did the ref react shortly after the arm movement? What did the ref mean by this arm movement of pointing at Neil then sweeping it away in a very similar way you'd tell someone to go away, bearing in mind it wasn't a corner and did the ref say owt to Neil prior to the card?

This is why I'm wondering if exactly what happened is hoyed in the ref's report and is it made public (or released to media?) and is the ref's mic recorded in the Championship? I hope that Mowbray is right into them for answers as to why it was a yellow, as well as the overall performance from the ref that led to the frustration of Neil in the 1st place!
.
:edit: Watching this video you can see that Neil says something initially but then he says something again to the ref while the ref is pointing at him and then the ref reacts.

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Interesting that your default position is Mowbray must be lying and it can’t be as simple as the ref over reacting, despite the fact the evidence of your eyes and what Mowbray says confirms it.
 
Chewit said:
Interesting that your default position is Mowbray must be lying and it can’t be as simple as the ref over reacting, despite the fact the evidence of your eyes and what Mowbray says confirms it.
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You can clearly see Neil go up to the ref and say “that’s not right, that’s not right, I said it’s not a f***ing free kick” after he is given the card.
To come out with that immediately tells you it’s probably true but, for some reason, some Sunderland fans would rather side with the ref and claim our Manager is lying.
 
Chewit said:
Interesting that your default position is Mowbray must be lying and it can’t be as simple as the ref over reacting, despite the fact the evidence of your eyes and what Mowbray says confirms it.
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Father Jack Hackett said:
You can clearly see Neil go up to the ref and say “that’s not right, that’s not right, I said it’s not a f***ing free kick” after he is given the card.
To come out with that immediately tells you it’s probably true but, for some reason, some Sunderland fans would rather side with the ref and claim our Manager is lying.
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I've little doubt he said that as I've suggested prior that Neil said that when he was pointing in the direction of the 'free kick' right at the start when he's just turned around. I'm just wondering if Neil may have possibly said something else just after the ref seemingly waved him away given the way the ref suddenly reacted with the yellow.
 
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Georgewhitt said:
Calling the ref a cheat, is saying he did it to intentionally benefit Boro.
Do you honestly believe that?
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If he was the same for both side then just rubbish ref but to pull up a decision against one team and not the other for the same offence is cheating or do you not agree.
redandwhiterob said:
It's impossible to has 100% consistency across the board. There are loads of little nuances to be taken in account. I don't think refs mind swearing bit how it's done can have a bearing on a decision
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90 % would but today was maybe 30%
 
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redandwhiterob said:
Who knows what will happen. The player wants shooting with shit for putting himself in that position. Football fans would literally defend anything. I'd fine the players two weeks wages. That defeat solely lies on his shoulders imo
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Both were in the wrong. The player should be fined but someone needs to have a word with the ref to try talking to players rather than just wave cards about.¹
redandwhiterob said:
Was there another instance in the match a player swore at the ref and he got away with it?
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Watch Match of the day tonight I am sure there will be plenty of examples.
Off for Mary?

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What was he actually sent off for? What I mean is, where is the line?

“Ref, that’s a foul” - is that a yellow cos he’s saying the ref is wrong?
“Ref that’s a f***ing foul” - apparently this a yellow
How about “f***ing great decision ref” ? What if it was in a sarcastic tone?

It’s all absolutely ridiculous. If you want to outlaw swearing, then fair enough, but apply it equally. If you want to never have players question a decision, then again, fair enough, bit they all need to be booked for it
 
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