Southgate - time to admit this place was wrong?

TravellingMackem said:
Belgium are similar to us, Brazil likewise. The claim made was that there was 4 teams miles beyond us. We also have great players, like Kane, Foden, etc, that are equally capable of winning games on their own like KDB as you cited. France is the only team you could argue is miles ahead of us squad wise, but they have 101 problems within their squad.

The fact we aren’t performing on that level is down to Southgate, not the players we have available (or lack of quality players more precisely)

He frequently didn’t pick Foden last tournament. Grealish was also in the form of his life and couldn’t get on the pitch, despite having an impact every game. A midfield two of Phillips and Rice was shocking. Bellingham another that didn’t get into the team at all.
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Foden was injured that’s why. Bellingham had also just turned 18
 


parsonjohn1985 said:
The fact that you think england has the best squad in the world shows you are wholly unqualified to comment.

England has se excelleny attacking players. For some reason southgate plays a defensive style. It doesnt work together and i dont think hes currently doing a good job. But england absolutely dont have the best squad in world football.
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I’m still waiting to hear who all of these contenders are who have miles better squads than us. France is the only name I’ve heard so far that is far ahead of us quality wise. There are a few others who are better in some areas but worse in others, like Belgium and Brazil, but certainly not “miles better than us”
 
TravellingMackem said:
Belgium are similar to us, Brazil likewise. The claim made was that there was 4 teams miles beyond us. We also have great players, like Kane, Foden, etc, that are equally capable of winning games on their own like KDB as you cited. France is the only team you could argue is miles ahead of us squad wise, but they have 101 problems within their squad.

The fact we aren’t performing on that level is down to Southgate, not the players we have available (or lack of quality players more precisely)

He frequently didn’t pick Foden last tournament. Grealish was also in the form of his life and couldn’t get on the pitch, despite having an impact every game. A midfield two of Phillips and Rice was shocking. Bellingham another that didn’t get into the team at all.
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Ironically his one offensive tactic is bring Grealish on and see what he can do. His time is up imo.
 
TravellingMackem said:
Belgium are similar to us, Brazil likewise. The claim made was that there was 4 teams miles beyond us. We also have great players, like Kane, Foden, etc, that are equally capable of winning games on their own like KDB as you cited. France is the only team you could argue is miles ahead of us squad wise, but they have 101 problems within their squad.

The fact we aren’t performing on that level is down to Southgate, not the players we have available (or lack of quality players more precisely)
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No. You were the one who said miles. I just said beyond us - and I stand by that. Southgate (or an alternative) could perhaps get more out of the team that they’re giving now, but we’d still be talking about looking to get the bounce on a small handful of key moments in tight games. And in those situations it’s difficult to pin it on a manager. There’s no logical basis whatsoever to claim that our talent levels are such that we should overwhelm other teams, though. There’s not a coach in world football who could achieve that with the players available.
 
JL1985 said:
I’d say France, Spain, Brazil and Germany at the moment possibly Belgium.
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I’d say you’re mental. We battered Germany in the World Cup. Spain are a shadow of what they were too and neither have a striker. Don’t see the clamour over Brazil either who have as bad a defence as us.

Man for man we can match all of those, if we were able to get a decent manager we’d be able to compete
chunkyshitehawk53 said:
Foden is a forward anyway. Phillips was England’s player of the year.
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You mentioned Foden as a midfielder 2 posts ago. Changing the goalposts now it suits?

Couldn’t give a shite about an award voted by sponsors who usually don’t even watch the games. Phillips and rice as a pair didn’t work. They are a massive part of our problems. Nothing against them individually, but as a pairing it doesn’t work and kills any attacking play we have
 
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TravellingMackem said:
I’d say you’re mental. We battered Germany in the World Cup. Spain are a shadow of what they were too and neither have a striker. Don’t see the clamour over Brazil either who have as bad a defence as us.

Man for man we can match all of those, if we were able to get a decent manager we’d be able to compete

You mentioned Foden as a midfielder 2 posts ago. Changing the goalposts now it suits?

Couldn’t give a shite about an award voted by sponsors who usually don’t even watch the games. Phillips and rice as a pair didn’t work. They are a massive part of our problems. Nothing against them individually, but as a pairing it doesn’t work and kills any attacking play we have
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He also plays quite frequently.

What would your XI be?
 
The Cabbage said:
No. You were the one who said miles. I just said beyond us - and I stand by that. Southgate (or an alternative) could perhaps get more out of the team that they’re giving now, but we’d still be talking about looking to get the bounce on a small handful of key moments in tight games. And in those situations it’s difficult to pin it on a manager. There’s no logical basis whatsoever to claim that our talent levels are such that we should overwhelm other teams, though. There’s not a coach in world football who could achieve that with the players available.
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We have the two best teams in the world, which feature a large number of these England players in them. That’s a fairly decent basis. At club level, TAA for instance is the best RB in the world and Kane the best striker in the world. If they aren’t translating that to an England shirt that’s only on one person - Southgate. Could make a similar argument for a number of others too.
 
mikemanc said:
I agree but he plays 4 of them and the one who's been playing well as the right of a front 3 plays left wing back. All of the best players available to him play a high press game but he picks a few of them and we sit off with 5 at the back being as passive as we can be. I get we don't have great centre backs but I think we'd do better trying to make the most of our strengths than worrying about our weaknesses. It would definitely be far better to watch.
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Attack is the best form of defence.
 
TravellingMackem said:
We have the two best teams in the world, which feature a large number of these England players in them. That’s a fairly decent basis. At club level, TAA for instance is the best RB in the world and Kane the best striker in the world. If they aren’t translating that to an England shirt that’s only on one person - Southgate. Could make a similar argument for a number of others too.
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Trent alarm. Opinion dismissed;)
 
TravellingMackem said:
We have the two best teams in the world, which feature a large number of these England players in them. That’s a fairly decent basis. At club level, TAA for instance is the best RB in the world and Kane the best striker in the world. If they aren’t translating that to an England shirt that’s only on one person - Southgate. Could make a similar argument for a number of others too.
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Kane is better than Lewandowski and Benzema?

@Hongkongphooey
 
Personally I think England have been found out and Southgate doesn't have a backup plan. Happens when you play the same tactics over and over, think the last two tournaments we had our chance and blew it and will be back to quarter finalists depending on draw.

We still have good players but I don't think our squad is any better than about 8-12 others and worse than France, Belgium, Portugal, Brazil, Argentina and Spain's.

He's not getting sacked now but I'd say unless we go against expectations and do amazingly well (semis/final) then it's the right time to walk and let someone else have a pop.

Still have a young team and lots of players who can come through and make a difference but likely need a fresh take on things, shake up in formation and tactics, training, change a few players up.
 
TravellingMackem said:
I’d say you’re mental. We battered Germany in the World Cup. Spain are a shadow of what they were too and neither have a striker. Don’t see the clamour over Brazil either who have as bad a defence as us.

Man for man we can match all of those, if we were able to get a decent manager we’d be able to compete
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If you take out the Nations League I think it's safe to say we have competed pretty well in the tournaments Southgate has been manager. I don't like him and I don't like the way we play or his team selections but it does seem to be very effective.
 
Squad means fuck all in tournament football. It’s about an ethic a togetherness and a will to play above and beyond. Greece Denmark et al didn’t have fantastic ‘squads’ England won in 66 without arguably our best striker
 

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