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C.C:: Sussex v Durham (Hove)

As I said previously something not right here on and off the pitch. Team are under performing, we never hear from the Head Coach (or whatever stupid title he has), and the ground is an absolute tip. Hopefully we see improvements soon but today is another massively underwhelming day. The captain is a massive concern
 

I think North must have spent the winter in conversations about the England job not strengthening the squad as it's weaker than it was last year. We knew players had long term injuries or would be picked by England and The Hundred but did nothing to mitigate that. Petersen is a poor replacement for Bancroft as he's only here 7 games and woefully inexperienced playing in England.

Not sure what Franklin has been doing with the team as the team look like they've forgotten how to bat and bowl. Maybe he's distracted by the bullying allegations and needs a break?

Borthwick we've been talking about for some time: a signing and captaincy appointment based on heart not head. Did alright in the RLC last year but otherwise powerless and clueless how to influence the course of a match. More passive than Root and let's games drift. Hasn't a clue how to use spinners, especially himself.

Early doors and all that shit but this is a good team that is massively underperforming which invariably points to a leadership problem.

Why the frig didn't we bowl then?

Right call to bat like, missing the point

No way that was a time for inserting people we just batted incredibly poorly
I think North must have spent the winter in conversations about the England job not strengthening the squad as it's weaker than it was last year. We knew players had long term injuries or would be picked by England and The Hundred but did nothing to mitigate that. Petersen is a poor replacement for Bancroft as he's only here 7 games and woefully inexperienced playing in England.

Not sure what Franklin has been doing with the team as the team look like they've forgotten how to bat and bowl. Maybe he's distracted by the bullying allegations and needs a break?

Borthwick we've been talking about for some time: a signing and captaincy appointment based on heart not head. Did alright in the RLC last year but otherwise powerless and clueless how to influence the course of a match. More passive than Root and let's games drift. Hasn't a clue how to use spinners, especially himself.

Early doors and all that shit but this is a good team that is massively underperforming which invariably points to a leadership problem.

Why the frig didn't we bowl then?

Aye North has left us short in the bowling department, but I have some sympathy with 2 first teamers barely bowling a ball
 
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not strengthening the squad as it's weaker than it was last year.

i bet if i was the type (and had the search function available) i could find more or less everyone on here raving about how strong the squad looked this year!

there's no way we should be performing so badly, especially having got surprisngly good contributions from unexpected areas. massively let down by the senior members of the side. just can't get me head round borthwick, one of the best and most consistent bats in the country for years, and since leaving has been so poor.
 
Carse and….?

assuming he means coggers?

tbf, i carse seems to have been out so long i consider him a potential new signing rather than someone we should be relying on. same with coggers tbh, his return has been a bit of a disappointment
 
not strengthening the squad as it's weaker than it was last year.

I’m sorry but I disagree.

The only real change from last year is Bancroft for Petersen. I get your frustration, but the kid has incredible potential and several world pundits have been raving about him.

If it’s weaker, it’s on a massive technicality.
Why the frig didn't we bowl then?

It’s flat as fuck. Like most flat pitches, the first session gives a little assistance. I watched every ball, we lost wickets through hideous batting. Nothing else. Their bowling attack is club standard.
 
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I’m sorry but I disagree.

The only real change from last year is Bancroft for Petersen. I get your frustration, but the kid has incredible potential and several world pundits have been raving about him.

If it’s weaker, it’s on a massive technicality.

we rarely change much about the side - the main changes year to year is will our young players' development surpass the older players' regression.

dickson & jones have improved, lees away with england, petersen has been very poor so far and bedingham isn't performing at his unsustainably incredible rate.

potts has improved, gibson it's too early to judge but doesn't lookr eady to carry a load (if we're being optimistic), rushworth isn't performing at his unsustainably incredible rate, everyone else regressed a bit anarl.

i can understand the 'we're weaker' argument, but it's entirely based on hindsight and assuming the poor form of petersen, bedingham, rushy etc is more permanent that temporary
 
I'm at a lost with the early season results. Last year it looked like we had a good and improving team, so I had high hopes for this year. I don't know what has gone wrong. We have very good players who are not playing to their usual standard, e.g. Rushy, Borthwick and 'Ned' to pick out three. I don't know why.
 
I'm at a lost with the early season results. Last year it looked like we had a good and improving team, so I had high hopes for this year. I don't know what has gone wrong. We have very good players who are not playing to their usual standard, e.g. Rushy, Borthwick and 'Ned' to pick out three. I don't know why.
Borthwick record last 4 years poor for us and Surrey
 
The only real change from last year is Bancroft for Petersen
Out (released or not re-signed):
Bancroft
Burnham
C.Steel
Poynter
Thomson (loanee)
Young (3 or 4 games only)

In:
Petersen (7 games only)
Turner (Blast only)
Drissell (loanee)

Lost to Injuries/England/100:
Carse
Lees
Wood
Potts
Bedingham
 
Out (released or not re-signed):
Bancroft
Burnham
C.Steel
Poynter
Thomson (loanee)
Young (3 or 4 games only)

Which of those would you have kept?
Lost to Injuries/England/100:
Carse
Lees
Wood
Potts
Bedingham

Injuries happen, England happens - but invariably it’s a sign of strength.

What of Bedingham? He isn’t injured, he doesn’t qualify for England this year and he hasn’t been picked up by a 16.4 team 🤷‍♂️
 
i can understand the 'we're weaker' argument, but it's entirely based on hindsight and assuming the poor form of petersen, bedingham, rushy etc is more permanent that temporary
It's not just hindsight. The squad has shrunk. While they didn't pull up any trees last season, the likes of Bancroft, Poynter and Burnham added depth to the batting. We also knew for several months that Lees was likely to be away on England duty, and Carse and Wood would miss the start of the season due to injuries and/or IPL. Nothing was done to mitigate this, it was simply assumed kids would step up to the mark.
 
It's not just hindsight. The squad has shrunk. While they didn't pull up any trees last season, the likes of Bancroft, Poynter and Burnham added depth to the batting. We also knew for several months that Lees was likely to be away on England duty, and Carse and Wood would miss the start of the season due to injuries and/or IPL. Nothing was done to mitigate this, it was simply assumed kids would step up to the mark.

Jones and Dickson have come to the fore, I don’t recall anyone getting too upset at the release of Poynter and Burnham at the back end of last year. They both had more than enough time and opportunity to cement their places.

Bancroft has been replaced, by Petersen.

Carse we knew was injured, Wood cannot be relied on. We have two players who are centrally contracted and therefore we should never expect them to be considered as a part of the squad for strength and/or depth purposes.
 
we rarely change much about the side - the main changes year to year is will our young players' development surpass the older players' regression.

dickson & jones have improved, lees away with england, petersen has been very poor so far and bedingham isn't performing at his unsustainably incredible rate.

potts has improved, gibson it's too early to judge but doesn't lookr eady to carry a load (if we're being optimistic), rushworth isn't performing at his unsustainably incredible rate, everyone else regressed a bit anarl.

i can understand the 'we're weaker' argument, but it's entirely based on hindsight and assuming the poor form of petersen, bedingham, rushy etc is more permanent that temporary
Not so sure it is hindsight,though. Coughlin can never be relied upon given his fitness record and Carse was on England's radar in the winter so there was always the danger we'd lose him. Given Rushy's age we should have had contigency plans for a replacement so I think there has been a lack of foresight. Really worrying thing is that the academy bowling conveyor belt appears to have dried up. Gibson looks miles off 1st team standard, Cambell appears to have disappeared off the radar completely. Mitch Killeen looks promising but a long way from senior level.At times like this the leaders have to show up. Unfortunately both Borthwick and Franklin are completely devoid of leadership qualities.
 
Out (released or not re-signed):
Bancroft
Burnham
C.Steel
Poynter
Thomson (loanee)
Young (3 or 4 games only)

In:
Petersen (7 games only)
Turner (Blast only)
Drissell (loanee)

Lost to Injuries/England/100:
Carse
Lees
Wood
Potts
Bedingham

None of those look different to last season really tbf other than lees missing a few games, and if we get stokes for a few games that balances it out.

Our key players have been poor, that's the difference
Carse we knew was injured, Wood cannot be relied on. We have two players who are centrally contracted and therefore we should never expect them to be considered as a part of the squad for strength and/or depth purposes.

Carse and wood have rarely played for us for years so 'losing them' isn't really a fair reflection. Of course however they'd improve th aide massively
. Given Rushy's age we should have had contigency plans for a replacement so I think there has been a lack of foresight.

This is a real point and something we've all been saying for years. Tbh we've never replaced onions and left rushy to carry the entire attack for far too long
 
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Which of those would you have kept?
Bancroft/Young
The others I would have attempted to mitigate with loan signings
Injuries happen, England happens - but invariably it’s a sign of strength.
And where they can be predicted you need to mitigate them.

I am a big advocate of giving promising youngsters a chance but the kids in line in the batting department, after Jones, are like 18 and 19.
 
I appreciate it's not all the same people but theres people criticising Durham for having too many foreigners in the team, people criticising Surrey for signing an overseas player short term to cover injury and criticism for not making signings and having to play young lads who might not be ready

You can't have it both ways like.

And if the likes of bedders and rushy were performing in line with realistic expectations this conversation would probably be totally different
 
Bancroft/Young

I wouldn’t have disagreed at the time. I’d have been happy with either coming back, but I can’t and won’t criticise the signing of Petersen as a replacement based on the potential he has after that Test Series against India.

I suspect the club will be lining another overseas man up for the second half of the season once he’s left - I think at this stage most would agree a strike bowler might not be a bad option.

The others I would have attempted to mitigate with loan signings

We don’t really need them though 🤷‍♂️ and who is available to come on loan? Sussex have just drafted in a lad who can’t get a game for Essex and a lad who can’t hold down a place for Hampshire. I don’t remember loans ever being much use to us (or anyone else for that matter) in the past. The bowling looks desperate for something different I admit that, but I don’t think anyone would’ve had any issue before the season started with a main bowling corps of Rushworth, Carse, Potts, Coughlin, Raine and Salisbury. 4 of those from 6 to take the bulk of the work, complimented by a couple of the emerging lads like Gibson, Campbell, as the season progressed.

The noises throughout March about Stokes were promising, if we could’ve had him for 3/4 of the first 7 that would’ve been a huge boost. Unfortunately I doubt we’ll even see him at all now so it’s a massive kick in the balls, but that would’ve helped immeasurably.

And where they can be predicted you need to mitigate them.

Half covered that above but just to extend on what I said - on paper, going into the season, our bowling corps was as good as any other in the league. I think even some first division sides would’ve looked enviously at what we have. It’s easy to sit here now with the benefit of hindsight and criticise, but I don’t believe anyone on this forum prior to the Glamorgan game was predicting such a catastrophic drop off in performances like the one we’ve so far seen from the bowling unit.

I am a big advocate of giving promising youngsters a chance but the kids in line in the batting department, after Jones, are like 18 and 19.

I stand by the clubs record on that score in most cases over the last few decades, but even despite the recent failings from the top order I don’t think any player can be justifiably dropped and replaced by anyone from the 2’s.

I agree with your sentiment from pre-season that perhaps Borthwick could benefit from a drop to 6. I doubt he’d agree though. On days like today (and the two against Notts) it seems we are a batsman light in the middle order - I’d rather see Eck at 7 - but to have four seamers and Trev in the side, which is pretty much a must given our situation - there’s nothing else we could do.
I appreciate it's not all the same people but theres people criticising Durham for having too many foreigners in the team, people criticising Surrey for signing an overseas player short term to cover injury and criticism for not making signings and having to play young lads who might not be ready

You can't have it both ways like.

And if the likes of bedders and rushy were performing in line with realistic expectations this conversation would probably be totally different

I’ve got absolutely no issue with the current ‘diversity’ of the side like.

Agree with your logic.
I'm at a lost with the early season results. Last year it looked like we had a good and improving team, so I had high hopes for this year. I don't know what has gone wrong. We have very good players who are not playing to their usual standard, e.g. Rushy, Borthwick and 'Ned' to pick out three. I don't know why.

Agree completely. That was pretty much my opening argument on this thread - you’ve simply managed to articulate it in far fewer words than I did :lol:
 
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