Booing prior to the kick off.

[Tommy Tolpuddle]

I boo it for what it's is - using football for politically Marxist ends to brainwash people through ritual and to create false division. British football hasn't had fundamental racist problem for decades.

Thick as fuck. You're certainly a baldy.

 

[Get Into Em]

Ok I'll start booing from home. I'll let you know in the match thread.

"but that still implies that they're either extremely thick or extremely ignorant to believe that the kneeling is in support of the Marxist Organisation." That's a different proposition than what you said this time. I honestly don't believe you are doing so intentionally, but you have moved the goal posts.

Is your claim that no-one is kneeling in support of
a. marxism
or
b. a marxist organisation (BLM)?
or
c. something else?

The middle part is either wilful ignorance, incompetence, or sympathy for BLM by the PL . BLM were around when the fake "hands up, don't shoot" narrative was about, and that was under Obama. A 30 second google search and this whole debate could've been avoided, or at least, ameliorated.

Both a. and b. is my claim. It's not just a claim either like. No footballer is kneeling in support of Marxism or a Marxist organisation. Unless you can show me one that is?

I agree with your last point, it probably was either ignorance or incompetence (which is so unlike footballs governing bodies). But on the other side of the coin, as I said in my post: Didn't the PL etc. disassociate themselves upon discovery of the links to the organisation though, and did anyone know of it previous to the protests? It's easy to argue that they were naive and could have looked into it, but it took Trump's best man (Rudi Giuliani) to discover the links.

I could actually on reflection vaguely understand the booing of Black Lives Matter logos, branding etc. but again, I have to stand by the idea that you'd have to be extremely ignorant or extremeltly thick to believe that the thousands of footballers, pundits, managers, broadcasters etc. are in support of marxism.

I still however can't understand why anyone would boo an anti-racism campaign that's disassociated itself from that though. We know that the kneeling doesn't originate from it, so the argument that it directly links to BLM doesn't sit right. The kneeling literally started in a sporting event by one sportsman that was an anti-racism activist. With that in mind, I couldn't think of a better action to perform for an anti-racism campaign.

When they were wearing shirts with BLM on, are you saying they weren't in support of that organisation?

Completely. I'm sure you said yourself that they obviously weren't in support of this?

It's certain that BLM would've been claiming they were, 100%.

Ridiculous argument. What has that got to do with anything?

If you wore a white hoodie in support of cancer research for example, and the KKK claimed you were supporting them would that be a good reason for people to give you abuse?

 

[Bear Heed]

Ridiculous argument. What has that got to do with anything?

If you wore a white hoodie in support of cancer research for example, and the KKK claimed you were supporting them would that be a good reason for people to give you abuse?

Now that's a ridiculous argument.

Cancer research and the KKK are different in every possible way.

It's obvious that 'Black Lives Matter' could quite easily claim that players were supporting them.

Premier League players from all 20 clubs have made the following statement:
‘We, the Players, stand together with the singular objective of eradicating racial prejudice wherever it exists, to bring about a global society of inclusion, respect, and equal opportunities for All, regardless of their colour or creed. This symbol is a sign of unity from all Players, all Staff, all Clubs, all Match Officials and the Premier League #blacklivesmatter #playerstogether.’

 

[Get Into Em]

Now that's a ridiculous argument.

Cancer research and the KKK are different in every possible way.

It's obvious that 'Black Lives Matter' could quite easily claim that players were supporting them.

Premier League players from all 20 clubs have made the following statement:
‘We, the Players, stand together with the singular objective of eradicating racial prejudice wherever it exists, to bring about a global society of inclusion, respect, and equal opportunities for All, regardless of their colour or creed. This symbol is a sign of unity from all Players, all Staff, all Clubs, all Match Officials and the Premier League #blacklivesmatter #playerstogether.’

It is a ridiculous statement. That's my point.

It would mean absolutely nothing if they claimed it was in support of them in the same way it would mean absolutely nothing if any other organisation did the same.

Not sure why you've used that quote? What angle are you getting at?

 

[Skylon]

Now that's a ridiculous argument.

Cancer research and the KKK are different in every possible way.

It's obvious that 'Black Lives Matter' could quite easily claim that players were supporting them.

Premier League players from all 20 clubs have made the following statement:
‘We, the Players, stand together with the singular objective of eradicating racial prejudice wherever it exists, to bring about a global society of inclusion, respect, and equal opportunities for All, regardless of their colour or creed. This symbol is a sign of unity from all Players, all Staff, all Clubs, all Match Officials and the Premier League #blacklivesmatter #playerstogether.’

It's a statement man.And black lives do matter.Are they supporting the #playerstogether organisation as well?

 

[gipetto]

Both a. and b. is my claim. It's not just a claim either like. No footballer is kneeling in support of Marxism or a Marxist organisation. Unless you can show me one that is?

I agree with your last point, it probably was either ignorance or incompetence (which is so unlike footballs governing bodies). But on the other side of the coin, as I said in my post: Didn't the PL etc. disassociate themselves upon discovery of the links to the organisation though, and did anyone know of it previous to the protests? It's easy to argue that they were naive and could have looked into it, but it took Trump's best man (Rudi Giuliani) to discover the links.

I could actually on reflection vaguely understand the booing of Black Lives Matter logos, branding etc. but again, I have to stand by the idea that you'd have to be extremely ignorant or extremeltly thick to believe that the thousands of footballers, pundits, managers, broadcasters etc. are in support of marxism.

I still however can't understand why anyone would boo an anti-racism campaign that's disassociated itself from that though. We know that the kneeling doesn't originate from it, so the argument that it directly links to BLM doesn't sit right. The kneeling literally started in a sporting event by one sportsman that was an anti-racism activist. With that in mind, I couldn't think of a better action to perform for an anti-racism campaign.



Completely. I'm sure you said yourself that they obviously weren't in support of this?



Ridiculous argument. What has that got to do with anything?

If you wore a white hoodie in support of cancer research for example, and the KKK claimed you were supporting them would that be a good reason for people to give you abuse?

Yes they did dissociate themselves, but in doing so they should have taken a different tact and not taken the knee imo. Why not just join together in a huddle instead?

 

[RossTheNinja]

Both a. and b. is my claim. It's not just a claim either like. No footballer is kneeling in support of Marxism or a Marxist organisation. Unless you can show me one that is?

I agree with your last point, it probably was either ignorance or incompetence (which is so unlike footballs governing bodies). But on the other side of the coin, as I said in my post: Didn't the PL etc. disassociate themselves upon discovery of the links to the organisation though, and did anyone know of it previous to the protests? It's easy to argue that they were naive and could have looked into it, but it took Trump's best man (Rudi Giuliani) to discover the links.

I could actually on reflection vaguely understand the booing of Black Lives Matter logos, branding etc. but again, I have to stand by the idea that you'd have to be extremely ignorant or extremeltly thick to believe that the thousands of footballers, pundits, managers, broadcasters etc. are in support of marxism.

I still however can't understand why anyone would boo an anti-racism campaign that's disassociated itself from that though. We know that the kneeling doesn't originate from it, so the argument that it directly links to BLM doesn't sit right. The kneeling literally started in a sporting event by one sportsman that was an anti-racism activist. With that in mind, I couldn't think of a better action to perform for an anti-racism campaign.



Completely. I'm sure you said yourself that they obviously weren't in support of this?



Ridiculous argument. What has that got to do with anything?

If you wore a white hoodie in support of cancer research for example, and the KKK claimed you were supporting them would that be a good reason for people to give you abuse?

There's two conditions then. Do you need proof footballers supported BLM and do you need proof they are a Marxist organisation?

 

[Get Into Em]

Yes they did dissociate themselves, but in doing so they should have taken a different tact and not taken the knee imo. Why not just join together in a huddle instead?

Answered my opinion on that in the post you replied to.

"The kneeling literally started in a sporting event by one sportsman that was an anti-racism activist. With that in mind, I couldn't think of a better action to perform for an anti-racism campaign."

It was first done almost half a decade before George Floyd was murdered.

There's two conditions then. Do you need proof footballers supported BLM and do you need proof they are a Marxist organisation?

Footballers supported an anti-racism campaign. You said that yourself. They haven't supported Marxism or anything to do with Marxism.

"They are doing it with the best intentions, because it means being against racism to them."

I'll answer your question again, and by doing so I'll agree with what you said earlier: No footballer is kneeling in support of Marxism or a Marxist organisation. Unless you can show me one that is?

 

[Bear Heed]

Yes they did dissociate themselves, but in doing so they should have taken a different tact and not taken the knee imo. Why not just join together in a huddle instead?

Did that actually happen, was there some kind of statement that I missed?

Or did they just slink away from it?

Whatever the case it's clear that football players supported BLM, or whatever we're supposed to call the Marxist ones.

They may not have realised that at the time but it was quite a confused situation. I heartily supported Adam Johnson, especially one Christmas at SJP, that doesn't mean I support paedophilia or whatever.

 

[Skylon]

Did that actually happen, was there some kind of statement that I missed?

Or did they just slink away from it?

Whatever the case it's clear that football players supported BLM, or whatever we're supposed to call the Marxist ones.

They may not have realised that at the time but it was quite a confused situation. I heartily supported Adam Johnson, especially one Christmas at SJP, that doesn't mean I support paedophilia or whatever.

About as clear as mud

 

[Get Into Em]

Did that actually happen, was there some kind of statement that I missed?

Or did they just slink away from it?

Whatever the case it's clear that football players supported BLM, or whatever we're supposed to call the Marxist ones.

They may not have realised that at the time but it was quite a confused situation. I heartily supported Adam Johnson, especially one Christmas at SJP, that doesn't mean I support paedophilia or whatever.

Iirc there was an article posted a few pages back by someone about how the PL disassociated themselves. Not that arsed to find it though, you'll just have to take my word if you can't be bothered either.

Ofcourse it doesn't mean you support it (AJ), and any sane thinking person would know this.

That one christmas at SJP we all celebrated the goal. We celebrated Sunderland goals before AJ scred his goals, we continue to celebrate Sunderland goals now that he's not associated with Sunderland.

Likewise: sportsmen knelt before the BLM protests a couple years ago in support of anti-racism, they knelt whilst wearing the BLM logos on their shirts in support of anti-racism, and they continue to kneel in support of anti-racism long after the governing bodies don't associate themselves with BLM.

What is the difference?

Got to say, wasn't expecting an AJ analogy to appear.

 

[Bear Heed]

About as clear as mud

Not for everyone it seems.

Iirc there was an article posted a few pages back by someone about how the PL disassociated themselves. Not that arsed to find it though, you'll just have to take my word if you can't be bothered either.

Ofcourse it doesn't mean you support it (AJ), and any sane thinking person would know this.

That one christmas at SJP we all celebrated the goal. We celebrated Sunderland goals before AJ scred his goals, we continue to celebrate Sunderland goals now that he's not associated with Sunderland.

Likewise: sportsmen knelt before the BLM protests a couple years ago in support of anti-racism, they knelt whilst wearing the BLM logos on their shirts in support of anti-racism, and they continue to kneel in support of anti-racism long after the governing bodies don't associate themselves with BLM.

What is the difference?

Got to say, wasn't expecting an AJ analogy to appear.

Tbh I didn't see the original statement or the post you've mentioned.

I just can't remember the PL categorically stating that.

I'm sure they've turned away from BLM but I doubt the general public are all aware of that. And that's where the confusion lies imo. I'm sure many people look at players kneeling and still assume it's to do with BLM.

 

[Skylon]

Not for everyone it seems.


Tbh I didn't see the original statement or the post you've mentioned.

I just can't remember the PL categorically stating that.

I'm sure they've turned away from BLM but I doubt the general public are all aware of that. And that's where the confusion lies imo. I'm sure many people look at players kneeling and still assume it's to do with BLM.

When you say it's clear that players supported blm the organisation.Its not clear at all.And you will never know if they do support it.Its an assumption.Just like you assume everyone is racist.

 

[Bear Heed]

When you say it's clear that players supported blm the organisation.Its not clear at all.And you will never know if they do support it.Its an assumption.Just like you assume everyone is racist.

Look, let me be blunt.

You come on here being childish and throwing around insults.

Then you believe you can go back to debating like a normal person.

That doesn't work with me I'm afraid.

I think you're an idiot and barely make any sense.

Please stop butting in where you're not wanted and allow people to answer for themselves. Haven't you yet noticed that most people ignore you and debate with other posters? Or that even those who may generally agree with your views don't engage you? You seem to feel left out so keep jumping into other people's conversations. Please give it a rest, there's a good lad.

 

[Skylon]

Look, let me be blunt.

You come on here being childish and throwing around insults.

Then you believe you can go back to debating like a normal person.

That doesn't work with me I'm afraid.

I think you're an idiot and barely make any sense.

Please stop butting in where you're not wanted and allow people to answer for themselves. Haven't you yet noticed that people ignore you and debate with other posters? Or that even those who may generally agree with your views don't engage you? You seem to feel left out so keep jumping into other people's conversations. Please give it a rest, there's a good lad.

Why are you getting so angry?I thought you weren't bothered by the knee.All I said was it's not clear if players were supporting blm or not.Dont have a hissy fit if people disagree with you.No wonder the South African lads ignored you!

 

[Bear Heed]

Why are you getting so angry?I thought you weren't bothered by the knee.All I said was it's not clear if players were supporting blm or not.Dont have a hissy fit if people disagree with you.No wonder the South African lads ignored you!

I'm not, you're just really tedious and irritating.

Some of the things you post are absolutely idiotic tbh.

 

[Skylon]

I'm not, you're just really tedious and irritating.

Some of the things you post are absolutely idiotic tbh.

Likewise.But don't let it get to you man .Just laugh it off ,like I do with your tosh.Its just a message board.Dont take it so seriously

 

[Bear Heed]

Likewise.But don't let it get to you man .Just laugh it off ,like I do with your tosh.Its just a message board.Dont take it so seriously

Certain things do get to me, I won't deny it.

You're too inconsequential to fall into that category, believe me.

As I've said you're just annoying because you interrupt conversations with nonsensical drivel.

Give it a rest, it's really tedious.

 

[Skylon]

Certain things do get to me, I won't deny it.

You're too inconsequential to fall into that category, believe me.

As I've said you're just annoying because you interrupt conversations with nonsensical drivel.

Give it a rest, it's really tedious.

I could say the same to you with your drivel though.Dont be so precious.Its a message board where you can say stuff.Thats all.

 

[Definitely Maybe]

Not for everyone it seems.


Tbh I didn't see the original statement or the post you've mentioned.

I just can't remember the PL categorically stating that.

I'm sure they've turned away from BLM but I doubt the general public are all aware of that. And that's where the confusion lies imo. I'm sure many people look at players kneeling and still assume it's to do with BLM.

There's only confusion if you choose to be confused imo. Players have been kneeling for the best part of 2 years now and other than the first few weeks in June/July 2020 the message has always been 'kneeling to demonstrate against racism and all forms of discrimination'. The commentators are very keen to stress that every single game and frequently point out 'it isn't to support any political party or organisation'. The debate has been done to death and the Marxism argument blown out of the water. SAFC even released a statement stating players kneel against racism and all forms of discrimination. If people still choose to see it that way that is because of their own ignorance imo.

There are many valid arguments to say that the knee has ran it's course and should stop and I agree with them. But the mental gymnastics from some to justify booing a 5 second demonstration against racism and discrimination is staggering.