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Defoe talk-in - Roker Hotel tonight

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oddbod said:
If you've got a rolls Royce you are an idiot if you dont keep up the maintenance costs .......you are as usual blurring the lines .. no club outside the premiership has the facilities that we do and that requires upkeep! talk about the the team or squad spending and we are not the top spenders in the January window and we should have been!

No he didn't!not in a sustained way he was always chasing his tail!he was paying wages and payoffs of players long gone!Your analysis is always such a narrow focus that you miss the big picture..yes short spent a lot of money but it was fire fire fighting not team building.
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yes we have facilties..and thats the point! when people talk about safc having huge revenue and not spending, they dont realise..the facilites cost money! safc will spend millions this year on facilities, but fans care only about firt team performance.
Why should the club have been the biggest spenders in january? and any evidence ot was not? safc is competing for promotion, not the biggest spender prize, mk dons spend fuck all and have a greatwr chance of promotion than ipswich, whic spent relatievly little but still lots, and than safc who spent vast sums for this league.

short did spend a lot of money on fire fighting..but the reason there were fires to fight was..the money he spent on team building was wasted-creating the fires! safc never scimped on trabsfer fees of wages oin the prem in shorts time..in the champo he stopped spending right enough..but even then the team would ahev stayed up if they had signed a different and [probably cheapoer keeper than steele
 

kildaremackem said:
yes we have facilties..and thats the point! when people talk about safc having huge revenue and not spending, they dont realise..the facilites cost money! safc will spend millions this year on facilities, but fans care only about firt team performance.
Why should the club have been the biggest spenders in january? and any evidence ot was not? safc is competing for promotion, not the biggest spender prize, mk dons spend fuck all and have a greatwr chance of promotion than ipswich, whic spent relatievly little but still lots, and than safc who spent vast sums for this league.

short did spend a lot of money on fire fighting..but the reason there were fires to fight was..the money he spent on team building was wasted-creating the fires! safc never scimped on trabsfer fees of wages oin the prem in shorts time..in the champo he stopped spending right enough..but even then the team would ahev stayed up if they had signed a different and [probably cheapoer keeper than steele
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You see but you don't observe! We need owners who can afford the upkeep of the facilities and build a team fit for purpose! Until we have that we are going nowhere!
We clearly needed a striker to sub for Stewart in January. The fact that we didn't get one shone a beacon on the utter amateurism of our ownership group and our future prospects with them at the helm.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Most teams that get out of this league do it spending bugger all money. It's about recruiting better (as in more wisely) than we have. At the same time though, we don't want to have a replace an entire team after promotion; your typical League 1 clogger won't cut it at the higher level. It's a balancing act we haven't got right since we've been here. There should be no need to spend more than £1m or so overall.
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The trouble we keep coming up against yo yo teams with a strong core, Rotherham say, and they are superior in this league.
 
oddbod said:
You see but you don't observe! We need owners who can afford the upkeep of the facilities and build a team fit for purpose! Until we have that we are going nowhere!
We clearly needed a striker to sub for Stewart in January. The fact that we didn't get one shone a beacon on the utter amateurism of our ownership group and our future prospects with them at the helm.
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hiw about...and I know this is a radical idea...the club geenrates enough money to do this itself?
Under Ellis Short thats basically what happened..the club mostly funded itself..except for transfer fees..which short funded.

Now its not realistic that the club could, in league one, afford to maintain its current facilities and fund an expensive team-but thats Ok, because the owners are doing that...the academy has maintained category one status and there are scouts and coaches galore..and also the first team is very expesnsively assembled for this league..
 
Definitely Maybe said:
Must admit I was pissed off when he knocked us back for West Brom but sharp got over that, but even before that there was an old poster on here called Corvus who absolutely despised him, to the point it became an obsession. He also used to say he 'feckin' hated him which is the shittest word ever invented - either swear or don't swear.

Remember him saying Phillips 'bad attitude' rubbed off on the quiet, hardworking lads like Gavin McCann. That'll be McCann who put in a transfer request about 18 months before Phillips then? No reply...

Quinn bizarrely got a fair amount of stick on here for working for Sky after leaving from people who couldn't grasp that sitting on a studio talking about football for one day a week was different to running a Premier League club as chairman.
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I had loads of arguments with him about Phillips. I often used to mention that Quinn (who he loved and talked glowlingly of) had admitted in his autobiography that he'd 'kept a little bit back' in 2001/02 for the world Cup with Ireland, where as a sub he made an impact on several occasions more than he had in an in and out injury hit season for us.

I couldn't blame Quinn at all for that - it's just life, but there was never any decent response to it 😃
richest said:
The trouble we keep coming up against yo yo teams with a strong core, Rotherham say, and they are superior in this league.
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This and also we're Sunderland with more pressure, more fans and more expectations on us than most teams at this level and we've largely signed the same types of player and mentality and experience that those other sides are signing. Some step-in and it doesn't phase them, some just can't deal with it.

Recruitment is key but also you need players who are going to handle the extra stuff and with a bit more quality when you are playing those sides who are playing us and see it as there turn in the spotlight and often raising their game.
 
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kildaremackem said:
hiw about...and I know this is a radical idea...the club geenrates enough money to do this itself?
Under Ellis Short thats basically what happened..the club mostly funded itself..except for transfer fees..which short funded.

Now its not realistic that the club could, in league one, afford to maintain its current facilities and fund an expensive team-but thats Ok, because the owners are doing that...the academy has maintained category one status and there are scouts and coaches galore..and also the first team is very expesnsively assembled for this league..
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Does kld have any ambition? I don't expect him to fork out 10 -15 million and buy his way out of league one as you don't need to do that!....but if he had any notion of improving our chances of promotion i did expect him to bolster our strikeforce in January! He didn't and to me that tells me all i need to know what type of owner he is going to be.
 
Perryqhill said:
I had loads of arguments with him about Phillips. I often used to mention that Quinn (who he loved and talked glowlingly of) had admitted in his autobiography that he'd 'kept a little bit back' in 2001/02 for the world Cup with Ireland, where as a sub he made an impact on several occasions more than he had in an in and out injury hit season for us.

I couldn't blame Quinn at all for that - it's just life, but there was never any decent response to it 😃


This and also we're Sunderland with more pressure, more fans and more expectations on us than most teams at this level and we've largely signed the same types of player and mentality and experience that those other sides are signing. Some step-in and it doesn't phase them, some just can't deal with it.

Recruitment is key but also you need players who are going to handle the extra stuff and with a bit more quality when you are playing those sides who are playing us and see it as there turn in the spotlight and often raising their game.
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your point is an excellent one. The reality is, the biggest challenge SAFC face in this league is, most of the players that would play in legaue one, will never have faced the expectation level, or even a 30k crowd before, and we cannot really know how they will react until they sign. The expectation level is not unreasonable, and the fans in the grounds response is generally not unreasonable.

There are two ways to look at how to address the issue, one is to sign players who have been promoted from this league before, as they will have dealt with the pressure of being at that end of the table, and of being favourites to win every week. That approach was tried first by Doanld etc..Will Grigg seemed the obvious choice, he had played some international football and been part of a hype cycle, while also been promoted. But his abject failure here shows there are no garauntees.

The second approach is to sign kids from PL academies, on the basis they will be cocky and confident and if coming from the right academies, will have won most games they play. The weaknesses of this approach have been evident this season.

The relaity is, its not an insurmountable conundreum, it can be solved, but its not easier to solve by simp,y "spending some f***ing money"
 
kildaremackem said:
The second approach is to sign kids from PL academies, on the basis they will be cocky and confident and if coming from the right academies, will have won most games they play. The weaknesses of this approach have been evident this season.
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Which of the players we've signed from Premier League academies do you think are cocky and arrogant? Because they all look quite the opposite to me.
 
Ashley In!! said:
Which of the players we've signed from Premier League academies do you think are cocky and arrogant? Because they all look quite the opposite to me.
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i didmt say ours are..but many would be..arrognant in a good way..
josh maja signed from the fulham academy for example..he was arrogant in a good way when he started..
one goal in nine for stoke might have knocked it out of him a bit now though
 
Ashley In!! said:
How is Maja's character an example of how it's a strategy which has failed us this season? Which is what you said.
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sigh. thats not what I said. Im using m,aja as an exmaple of what many premier league academy players are like..
the fact we signed some that arent like that..doesnt invalidate the hypothesis.
Also I would argue Patrick Roberts plays with a swagger, a good kind of confidence...he came from the premier league youth set ups?
 
kildaremackem said:
sigh. thats not what I said. Im using m,aja as an exmaple of what many premier league academy players are like..
the fact we signed some that arent like that..doesnt invalidate the hypothesis.
Also I would argue Patrick Roberts plays with a swagger, a good kind of confidence...he came from the premier league youth set ups?
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He didn't, he's 25.
kildaremackem said:
The second approach is to sign kids from PL academies, on the basis they will be cocky and confident and if coming from the right academies, will have won most games they play. The weaknesses of this approach have been evident this season.
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A reminder of what you said
 
kildaremackem said:
yes so wwhere did i say anything about maja in reference to this season?
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When I asked you for an example of the sort of character you were describing having been a failure in the market this season, the best example you came up with was Maja.

:lol:

Edit : and a player who is closer to being 30 than he is an academy graduate. :lol:
 
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Ashley In!! said:
When I asked you for an example of the sort of character you were describing having been a failure in the market this season, the best example you came up with was Maja.

:lol:

Edit : and a player who is closer to being 30 than he is an academy graduate. :lol:
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sigh, i was using maja to justiofy the hypothesis. The hypothesis isnt just about this seaosn, its about all seasons. If you want a specific example of a premier league academy player at safc who has failed this season..thats different as its not about the hypothesis.,.
 
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