Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

[OOOSH YEAH]

But what does he want? He can seize the territory of Ukraine, but there are 45 million people living there, the vast majority of them hate him, and everything he stands for. How do you control them?, the country is bigger than France. there would be massive civil unrest, resulting in mass casualties on both sides resulting in international sanctions being maintained. Russian economy would collapse, mass demonstrations etc., eventually Putin would be overthrown.

I don’t believe they’ll comply at all. When has that ever happened. They got beat in Afghan, USA couldn’t convince Vietnam, the nazis failed, Iraqis weren’t having it and and the taliban are back again. The days of empires are over. People don’t feel like they rely 100% on their governments anymore and have a lot more freedom. As said before we will have to watch the shitstorm unfold now on tv sadly.

I don’t disagree. Debate is more if we’ve come too far now that it will untimely lead to a war in the next year or ten year? Is it inevitable now. I don’t think any of us can predict it but hope to hell that it doesn’t, however as you say that likely means Ukraine falling under the control of Russia and Russia not wanting retribution of the wests sanctions.

I don’t think NATO will be drawn in and I don’t think America will. They’ve kept very quiet. Looks to me like nobody wants to get involved and look beaten. It’ll be condemned from all quarters but in reality Putin will have bullied his way to gaining land.

 

[Scotty]

He won't need to be in a corner for that, the NATO plan during the cold war if West Germany was invaded was to slow the Soviet advance and funnel them into the Fulda Gap and then use tactical nuclear weapons to destroy them.

that might have been the French plan



but it was'nt the NATO plan

 

[MackemBob]

There seems to be this current of avoiding loss of life at all costs, but if we had followed that doctrine during the 1930s, we would be speaking German now.

We did pretty much that throughout the 30s right up until the last 3 months of the decade.

Unfortunately, no one knows what to do to get the best result at the minute. No one wants to risk nuclear war though.

 

[brandon]

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Reminds me of the old Turkish Lira before they removed all the zeros.

 

[Dogbark]

Why should they not fight back though? If a hostile power wanted to invade the UK, would you advocate letting them? Would you not fight back if someone wanted to subjugate you and your family to their rule?

There seems to be this current of avoiding loss of life at all costs, but if we had followed that doctrine during the 1930s, we would be speaking German now.

After Ukraine what next? Where does Putin stop if Ukraine roll over. Georgia? Moldova? Finland?

Surely we cannot appease dictators like this.

Such an action could lead to the genesis of the EU army(Lardy's ultimate nightmare)

 

[OOOSH YEAH]

I said this she’s about and got pelters. There’s only one sensible outcome, putin gets what he wants and then suffers from sanctions. An awful lot of this death and destruction could have been avoided by Ukraine not fighting back. I understand why they have but for me personally, you’ve got to question if the Ukraine gov really do have their citizens best interests at heart.

It was only a few weeks a go there Ukraine president was reported in a CNN article asking western leaders to stop the invasion rhetoric as Ukraine has been living with the putin threat for years and nothing is likely to happen.

Got to fight mate. It’s our nature. You can’t let someone come along and take away your dignity without a fight.

 

[dangermows]

We did pretty much that throughout the 30s right up until the last 3 months of the decade.

Unfortunately, no one knows what to do to get the best result at the minute. No one wants to risk nuclear war though.

Exactly. And no one includes Putin. So that threat is off the table.

 

[Frijj]

We did pretty much that throughout the 30s right up until the last 3 months of the decade.

Unfortunately, no one knows what to do to get the best result at the minute. No one wants to risk nuclear war though.

That’s true and the nuclear risk we didn’t have in the 30s, but if we are going to be held to ransom over nukes when will it end?

 

[Lord Alfred]

Bishop Auckland's finest export our Fiona, probably knows Putin as well as any Western analyst.
Her books on Putin are hard a read though

Thanks for that mate, a truly excellent (and chilling) read.

 

[Az*]

That’s true and the nuclear risk we didn’t have in the 30s, but if we are going to be held to ransom over nukes when will it end?

It won’t. The kid that slapped you every night after school didn’t stop until you lamped him over the head with a lump of wood. Then he wanted to be your mate

 

[den]

Putin keeps everyone at least 20ft away because he’s paranoid about dying from Covid, yet he’s making out he’s quite happy to have a nuclear war.

 

[Cow]

Why should they not fight back though? If a hostile power wanted to invade the UK, would you advocate letting them? Would you not fight back if someone wanted to subjugate you and your family to their rule?

There seems to be this current of avoiding loss of life at all costs, but if we had followed that doctrine during the 1930s, we would be speaking German now.

After Ukraine what next? Where does Putin stop if Ukraine roll over. Georgia? Moldova? Finland?

Surely we cannot appease dictators like this.

First off we’re not in the 1930’s, that’s a moot point imo. I’d like to think as a civilisation in general We’ve got more intelligence and a lack of appetite for war.

As for a hostile power invading the U.K., it hasn’t happened, all I know is I wouldn’t want to die or have any of my family or friends fighting and at risk of dying. It’s not worth it.

In the context of Russia and Ukraine, it’s entirely up to the Ukrainians if they want to fight back, they’ve been fighting this war for years now. They also will know that the chances of a victory are very slim. For me, it’s not a case of letting putin win long term, it’s a case of fighting him in different ways….he invades Ukraine, takes the airports etc…let him have Ukraine then the west puts the sanctions in place that they have done….play the long game, avoid loss of life.

 

[bahtat]

It won’t. The kid that slapped you every night after school didn’t stop until you lamped him over the head with a lump of wood. Then he wanted to be your mate

in this day and age more likely to report u to police for assault than be your mate

 

[dangermows]

Seen Putins military spend. Less than 10% what the Yanks spend Russias GDP is less than 10% of the EUs GDP As if they've got the resources to hold the Ukraine for so long.

Lightweights getting well and truly above their station

 

[Cow]

Got to fight mate. It’s our nature. You can’t let someone come along and take away your dignity without a fight.

Yes you can. That’s a massive misconception, just because you don’t fight back doesn’t mean you’re weak. Is the loss of life really worth it for saving a bit of dignity? For me, the answer is an absolute no, I’d shit myself in fenwicks window whilst wearing a mag top if it meant saving the lives of my kids, etc.

 

[Wild Card]

Putin keeps everyone at least 20ft away because he’s paranoid about dying from Covid, yet he’s making out he’s quite happy to have a nuclear war.

time Magazine seems to think similar, although it does seem a little one sided

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[EDGE]

Hopefully someone sneezes in Pootin's direction.

 

[chrismisterx]

Declaring a no fly zone is akin to declaring war. Even if only accidental there’ll be a NATO or Russian casualty, and that will be that.

been loads of accidental NATO and Russian casualty's in the cold war , we just dont hear about it until many years later.

in that case lets get stuck in and risk it

We could, but would you be willing to also fight Russian Allies?

Cold hard truth is we have been fighting Proxy wars since the second world war, all the pain and suffering on the ground but Some western Generals and leaders will be loving this, Russia gets to bleed and we keep our hands clean.


Best we keep the moral High ground and have a stance to protect the Civilians and help Ukriane defend its own land by equipment and other Aid. The no fly zone if russia tries to wipe cities out has to be a pawn willing to be played.

 

[Cow]

It won’t. The kid that slapped you every night after school didn’t stop until you lamped him over the head with a lump of wood. Then he wanted to be your mate

That’s a fair point but is it worth the risk when that lump of wood is nuclear?

 

[MackemBob]

That’s true and the nuclear risk we didn’t have in the 30s, but if we are going to be held to ransom over nukes when will it end?

Unfortunately, I think we will see this playing out over a number of years. Sanctions will increase gradually to put a lot of pressure on Putin domestically. Thats the only way we can do things without playing a global endgame with no winners.

One of the options we have is for a division of the country between an independent Ukraine and a Russian controlled sector. This would most likely satisfy neither party, but the shelling can only be endured for so long.

In the time he is still in power, the west will have to try to pivot away from dependency on Russia for energy and as many commodities as possible.

NATO and the EU will both increase their membership numbers (there’s safety in numbers after all). We will most likely enter into a second Cold War until Putin is replaced by someone more moderate.