Loans/ Debt to the owners

[stevo]

There'll be details soon of a RAWA open meeting for any members to attend. If people have concerns (which I'm sure they will no matter what kld says next week) then protests are sure to be one of the things discussed. If the fans want to protest then obviously some details (what type of protest, what the aim is etc) would have to be agreed, but RAWA would certainly play their part in it

Look, the only protest we can make is to empty the ground,which would make big news on local tv stations.Then hopefully be picked up in the press to run with it.I get that this is hard for people to do,i stayed away the other night a thing i havnt done in 65 seasons.All i ask is do people think any change will happen if we keep rolling up in our thousands.its time for us to show some backbone.

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

On what planet is that even legal and why would KLD even allow it?

As always I think we need more info/ answers. In theory it's legal because they removed the obligation to pay the money back (need GOM for this one but I think because the debt at the time was between two companies owned by Madrox, they were able to effectively write it off). Since then it's just been Donald saying its his intention to pay it back. If he doesn't, legally, he's done nowt wrong. Quite why kld would get involved if he knew the money wasn't coming back in I'm not sure. Maybe he bought in for a lot less than we thought. Definitely need answers though, and as always we really need the old Madrox members (and for me that includes sartori) out of our club for good

 

[Butters]

SD shares will be sold, but not to KLD.

Welcome to Sunderland, Donald Stewart!

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

Look, the only protest we can make is to empty the ground,which would make big news on local tv stations.Then hopefully be picked up in the press to run with it.I get that this is hard for people to do,i stayed away the other night a thing i havnt done in 65 seasons.All i ask is do people think any change will happen if we keep rolling up in our thousands.its time for us to show some backbone.

I've mentioned several times in discussion with RAWA that the best protest we could do would be to withhold season card money. Don't renew until we get clarity and see actions. It's the only time the fans have genuine leverage but it would need to be organised. If they see season card money tumbling, Donald and Methven will be faced with either spending a load more or bailing out. It's also a way we can protest without disrupting the players and the manager who deserve support while they try to do enough to get us into the playoffs and hopefully, however unlikely, promoted.

Ultimately though, whether we protest and what form it takes would be down to the fans, which is exactly how it should be. Personally I'd support whatever the fans want to do, my 7 year old is already saying he doesn't enjoy going and doesn't want to go back, I can see us losing a generation of fans and I'm fucked if I'm going to sit back and watch that happen

 

[stevo]

I've mentioned several times in discussion with RAWA that the best protest we could do would be to withhold season card money. Don't renew until we get clarity and see actions. It's the only time the fans have genuine leverage but it would need to be organised. If they see season card money tumbling, Donald and Methven will be faced with either spending a load more or bailing out. It's also a way we can protest without disrupting the players and the manager who deserve support while they try to do enough to get us into the playoffs and hopefully, however unlikely, promoted.

Ultimately though, whether we protest and what form it takes would be down to the fans, which is exactly how it should be. Personally I'd support whatever the fans want to do, my 7 year old is already saying he doesn't enjoy going and doesn't want to go back, I can see us losing a generation of fans and I'm fucked if I'm going to sit back and watch that happen

Well done mate,I wish there was another way but there isnt.Money is their god and as you say we must hold off putting money in their devious pockets.Some posters are making out they are good supporters by turning up when in reality their actions are gonna keep us in this torture for ever.

 

[Hep]

No it’s not…

An investment pissed up the wall leaves 0 in the bank.

A loan pissed up the wall leaves the loan liability payable.

Tell me how that is net 0

That’s two different things.

Why on earth would somebody loan money to their own business to then waste it??

The hypocrisy of you saying no answers yet.

I'm still waiting for an answer why you constantly stick up for rich people who care as much about SAFC as Putin cares about Ukraine whilst constantly running down our mainly working class fanbase who invest so much money and effort to follow Sunderland

I’ve said on several occasions I’m not defending them.

Explaining that the owners putting money into the club isn’t a bad thing, isn’t defending what they’ve done wrong.

Would you prefer they didn’t make the loans?

 

[GiantHogweed]

As always I think we need more info/ answers. In theory it's legal because they removed the obligation to pay the money back (need GOM for this one but I think because the debt at the time was between two companies owned by Madrox, they were able to effectively write it off). Since then it's just been Donald saying its his intention to pay it back. If he doesn't, legally, he's done nowt wrong. Quite why kld would get involved if he knew the money wasn't coming back in I'm not sure. Maybe he bought in for a lot less than we thought. Definitely need answers though, and as always we really need the old Madrox members (and for me that includes sartori) out of our club for good

@Grumpy Old Man we need grump's perspective on this!

 

[Hep]

No. Wrong.

A directors loan is when a company loans money to its directors. This is the total opposite. Stop pretending on subjects you know nothing about.

Utter nonsense, I’ve made a directors loan to a company personally. It’s very common practice.

The loans can be in both directions.

Why should we owe money to them? What happened to the £20m parachute money?

We don’t owe any money to them.

A company they own, owes money to them.

They’ve actively put money into the club and we still complaining???

 

[Be Here Now]

That’s two different things.

Why on earth would somebody loan money to their own business to then waste it??

I’ve said on several occasions I’m not defending them.

Explaining that the owners putting money into the club isn’t a bad thing, isn’t defending what they’ve done wrong.

Would you prefer they didn’t make the loans?

STILL dodging what I ask.

What a horrible, smug arsehole you are.

As I've said before I really have no idea what your game is or what your motivation in siding with Methven etc is while continuing to degrade the fans of SAFC. You have the nerve to say me and other fans need to "step up"

Will you be one of the 4,500 "stepping up" at Wigan on Saturday?

 

[Hep]

STILL dodging what I ask.

What a horrible, smug arsehole you are.

As I've said before I really have no idea what your game is or what your motivation in siding with Methven etc is while continuing to degrade the fans of SAFC. You have the nerve to say me and other fans need to "step up"

Will you be one of the 4,500 "stepping up" at Wigan on Saturday?

Do you understand the difference between explaining that a directors loan into a company isn’t a bad thing and is very common practice, and defending the owners other actions, which I’m not doing?

 

[Smartin]

Just now waiting for confirmation we’ve paid off the Álvarez fee for the 6th time.

 

[Be Here Now]

Do you understand the difference between explaining that a directors loan into a company isn’t a bad thing and is very common practice, and defending the owners other actions, which I’m not doing?

I have asked time and time and time again why as an apparent Sunderland you defend any criticism of your pals at Madrox. I have made no reference to a loan at all. It becomes more obvious each time you post you have some kind of connection to the ownership or the club and its quite uncomfortable the way you go on. I asked if you would be one of the fans "stepping up" (your words about the fanbase) at Wigan. Surprise surprise no answer.

 

[Hep]

As always I think we need more info/ answers. In theory it's legal because they removed the obligation to pay the money back (need GOM for this one but I think because the debt at the time was between two companies owned by Madrox, they were able to effectively write it off). Since then it's just been Donald saying its his intention to pay it back. If he doesn't, legally, he's done nowt wrong. Quite why kld would get involved if he knew the money wasn't coming back in I'm not sure. Maybe he bought in for a lot less than we thought. Definitely need answers though, and as always we really need the old Madrox members (and for me that includes sartori) out of our club for good

Kld would value the worth of the club at a lower value due to that loan being written off. That would mean his investment would secure a higher stake in the club.

I

 

[pwsafc]

Something bad has come out - whether it's true or not has yet to be determined. KLD is not implicated though - which is good news.

What has come out that's bad, other than rumours and speculation

 

[Hep]

I have asked time and time and time again why as an apparent Sunderland you defend any criticism of your pals at Madrox. I have made no reference to a loan at all. It becomes more obvious each time you post you have some kind of connection to the ownership or the club and its quite uncomfortable the way you go on. I asked if you would be one of the fans "stepping up" (your words about the fanbase) at Wigan. Surprise surprise no answer.

To be clear I’m not defending Madrox, I simply not attacking them for making a loan to the club. Big difference.

No, I won’t be at Wigan as I’ve other commitments, but I’ve been to more matches both home an away than I can even hazard a guess at.

 

[Be Here Now]

To be clear I’m not defending Madrox, I simply not attacking them for making a loan to the club. Big difference.

No, I won’t be at Wigan as I’ve other commitments, but I’ve been to more matches both home an away than I can even hazard a guess at.

Again I made no reference to the loan.

Tells fans to "step up" but not going yourself.

 

[Hep]

@Hep Can you explain in simple terms what is going on and how it benefits the club? I really don't understand.

Directors have loaned the club money. That’s it.

Again I made no reference to the loan.

Tells fans to "step up" but not going yourself.

Have you been to every game since you were old enough to support them?

Because, whether it's legal or illegal, it's wrong.

Football clubs aren't businesses and shouldn't be treated as one.

It just goes to show how dirty and immoral the business world is.

What is wrong with lending a business money?

 

[Be Here Now]

Directors have loaned the club money. That’s it.

Have you been to every game since you were old enough to support them?

No but I go to the vast majority of games home and away (Just two missed this season) but never once tell my fellow fans to step up or side with a rich men from Oxfordshire who accuse our fans of kidnapping their family members or label them a disease.

You've got some kind of allegiance with them which you have not once denied.

 

[oddbod]

Kld would value the worth of the club at a lower value due to that loan being written off. That would mean his investment would secure a higher stake in the club.

I

It takes two to tango...kld can put a value on what he likes ..it doesn't mean Donald and co have to agree or accept it! Does anybody realistically believe that Donald will give up money he doesn't legally have to?

 

[Hep]

No but I go to the vast majority of games home and away (Just two missed this season) but never once tell my fellow fans to step up or side with a rich men from Oxfordshire who accuse our fans of kidnapping their family members or label them a disease.

You've got some kind of allegiance with them which you have not once denied.

Not everything is black and white.

A lot of the stuff they have done has been very bad. That doesn’t mean we should see everything they do as bad, that doesn’t help.

The loans that this thread is about, are not a bad thing.

I’ve witnessed arguments between fans at the last two home games. All of this whipping up of every commercial thing they do is making things worse.

We shouldn’t be demanding KLD buys out Madrox, if he’s got money to invest, buy some players. We also shouldn’t be complaining that they loaned the club money, and we shouldn’t give a toss about share percentages. Judge their actions going forward, give KLD a few years to sort the club out.

Our hatred has coloured our thinking.

It takes two to tango...kld can put a value on what he likes ..it doesn't mean Donald and co have to agree or accept it! Does anybody realistically believe that Donald will give up money he doesn't legally have to?

Agreed, but it’s much harder to negotiate for an asset that is clearly worth less.