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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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HarrogateMackem said:
Russia invades and takes the two areas with Russian separatists in charge. Bluster from the west while Ukraine fights back. Russia either falls back when economic sanctions hit the country too hard and internal rest increases (e.g. 2014) or Russia takes those areas as they are better prepared this time. In a few months time regardless of the result of the skirmish the world moves on like normal.
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A hostile population-sanctions taking their toll and a western backed Guerrilla army dug in behind them, for months if not years. I can't see Putin getting anything from this.
 

mickb2112 said:
I agree, but what if Russia had pushed harder in Cuba or had brought Mexico and some of the Central/South American countries into a sort of Warsaw pact alliance. I can`t see America being too chuffed at that, indeed it is on record that some of those left leaning countries on their continent were destabilised by US backed coups.
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the US wont let anyone play on their turf
 
sambantam82 said:
Ffs. That's like saying a deranged gunman running into a shopping center deserves praise for making the people inside do what he tells them.
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Tad different but that's your view.

All this condemnation bollocks is embarrassing and just shows how powerful Putin is. He's showing just how weak these world leaders are.
 
Pantomime Mackem said:
Well, the long peace after the Second World War is finally over. We have been so lucky to have lived through it. Europe is now in play on the battle field again, and Putin won't stop with Ukraine. The USA is weak and may yet destoy itself in civil war. Britain is in the middle of self-destruction and is now a non-entity led by a fool. France and Germany will make a final stand, but the good times are over.

The Chinese century is beginning.
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Yeah fuck that, if needs be we all take up arms and defend. I personally would not go down without a fight tbh.
 
Had a text earlier from a mate who is an editor in a scientific journal. Publication submitted for review from Russian scientists trying to predict ancestral origin in North Eurasian countries using genetic analysis.

Apparently contains a big map of Russia and neighbours showing who has similar genomes.

Really dodgy stuff going on.
 
Frijj said:
Is it bollocks man. How is it on the West?

Every country that has joined NATO has done so because they want to. They weren’t forced to. Russia doesn’t own those countries. It has no right to tell them what to do.

Stop being an apologist for Putin ffs.
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Cuba wanted Russian support and were "free" to go to who they wanted. Didn`t please the Americans very much.
 
billybobmackem2312 said:
Missile attack on Ivano Frankivsk airport, video on Sky news is harrowing, civilians just knocking about on the streets
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Kyiv is roughly the size of Birmingham? Around 3 million people. I thought it was strange how there's folk knocking around, but when you consider that I suppose it suggests it's very quiet.
 
Astra said:
It’s always the ordinary people who suffer. Putin isn’t infallible. His speech on restoring the Soviet Empire didn’t go down that well with many of his own appointees. Stalin isn’t universally admired in Russia and a man who wishes to emulate him is more likely to ring alarm bells. Dictators always seem to overreach themselves eventually and this could be Putin’s moment.
It will certainly concentrate minds in the west . There are still people who remember nazi occupation and even more who remember Russian occupation. I don’t think they want to return to those days.
For the younger generations in the U.K. Eastern Europe is where they go for cheap holidays, stag dos etc. but for my generation it’s where the poor people lived doing whatever they were told by whoever Russia put in charge and keeping their mouths shut because they didn’t fancy a trip to Siberia. There’s a reason Eastern European countries are poorer than western ones. Perhaps those watching Ukraine fight to avoid a return to those days might like to consider how they’d feel if it was the prospect here? If we don’t draw a line somewhere you might consider learning Russian and prepare to find out. Our best hope is that the Russian people call a halt and get rid of Putin but I’m not holding my breath.
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Funny though, because if you ever speak to any older Russians who lived in that period (or anyone from Yugoslavia too) they all f***ing loved the Soviet Union/ Yugosalvia and miss it. Polling around the time of the collapse still showed massive support for it too. There were certainly awful points as you highlighted and we in the west were definitely shown them for obvious reasons. But I think the fact you had a free house, education, job etc. is something that was taken away with it's collapse is a huge thing. Also there was good upkeep of buildings, the roads etc. Materially they might have been poorer but there was a security blanket that has gone. The rise of capitalism and oligarchy hasn't helped ordinary people.
 
billybobmackem2312 said:
I’m tempted to message her now to find out her thoughts but will leave it till tonight.

I have a feeling you’re right though.
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I mentioned it before a few days ago on here. A Russian lady I know was adamant that Russia wouldn't invade and the pictures of all the artillery and troops surrounding the Ukraine were all fake!!

Oh, and it's the UK and America who are to blame apparently.

Even last night my Bulgarian neighbour was denying that the Russians had started invading!
 
Visiting owl said:
I mentioned it before a few days ago on here. A Russian lady I know was adamant that Russia wouldn't invade and the pictures of all the artillery and troops surrounding the Ukraine were all fake!!

Oh, and it's the UK and America who are to blame apparently.

Even last night my Bulgarian neighbour was denying that the Russians had started invading!
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Mate exactly the same! All the pictures and reports were propaganda and there were no russian troops on the borders! You've literally just said word for word what I was told also. Crackers man
 
coyneeee said:
That's an optimistic outcome.

Putin has said Ukraine is not a country. It's a bit of a hint he wants more than Donetsk and Luhansk.

He's gone absolute batshit warped with his ideology of a modern day USSR and thinks it could be a reality.
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The Russian economy is tiny, he can hint all he likes. He just wants to build internal support.
 
GordonMuchallNo1Fan said:
Tad different but that's your view.

All this condemnation bollocks is embarrassing and just shows how powerful Putin is. He's showing just how weak these world leaders are.
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They're leaders who by and large value democracy, peace and concensus. Avoiding conflict that puts their civilians lives at risk is an absolute last resort. You're right in that this mindset could ultimately give Putin a route to achieve his aims but there isn't really an alternative.
 
look out piano said:
Yeah fuck that, if needs be we all take up arms and defend. I personally would not go down without a fight tbh.
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I admire you for that, but I promise you this country will go down without a fight. We do not take seriously Russian interference in our democracy, see below for what Russia's done to us so far, and we haven't as a country done a single thing about it. We are literally going down without a fight
  • UK government failed to investigate evidence of successful interference in democratic processes
  • ‘Credible open-source commentary’ suggesting Russia sought to influence Scottish independence referendum
  • Russian influence in the UK is ‘the new normal’
  • Links between Russian elite and UK politics
  • Intelligence community ‘took its eye off the ball’ on Russia
  • UK’s paper-and-pencil voting system makes direct interference harder
  • Defending UK’s democratic processes is a ‘hot potato’
  • Errors in Salisbury poisoning and weapons watchdog hack do not diminish Moscow threat
  • New legislation needed to replace outdated spy laws.

The United Kingdom is one of Russia's "top targets" and is "seen as central to the Western anti-Russian lobby".

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HarrogateMackem said:
Funny though, because if you ever speak to any older Russians who lived in that period (or anyone from Yugoslavia too) they all f***ing loved the Soviet Union/ Yugosalvia and miss it. Polling around the time of the collapse still showed massive support for it too. There were certainly awful points as you highlighted and we in the west were definitely shown them for obvious reasons. But I think the fact you had a free house, education, job etc. is something that was taken away with it's collapse is a huge thing. Also there was good upkeep of buildings, the roads etc. Materially they might have been poorer but there was a security blanket that has gone. The rise of capitalism and oligarchy hasn't helped ordinary people.
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Think this is the main point. And the ones causing all the bother are the ones with the most cash in their back pockets...
 
Astra said:
It’s always the ordinary people who suffer. Putin isn’t infallible. His speech on restoring the Soviet Empire didn’t go down that well with many of his own appointees. Stalin isn’t universally admired in Russia and a man who wishes to emulate him is more likely to ring alarm bells. Dictators always seem to overreach themselves eventually and this could be Putin’s moment.
It will certainly concentrate minds in the west . There are still people who remember nazi occupation and even more who remember Russian occupation. I don’t think they want to return to those days.
For the younger generations in the U.K. Eastern Europe is where they go for cheap holidays, stag dos etc. but for my generation it’s where the poor people lived doing whatever they were told by whoever Russia put in charge and keeping their mouths shut because they didn’t fancy a trip to Siberia. There’s a reason Eastern European countries are poorer than western ones. Perhaps those watching Ukraine fight to avoid a return to those days might like to consider how they’d feel if it was the prospect here? If we don’t draw a line somewhere you might consider learning Russian and prepare to find out. Our best hope is that the Russian people call a halt and get rid of Putin but I’m not holding my breath.
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Indeed. I agree with this.

I think Putin has gone crazy if he thinks this is a popular move at home. Ukraine is the equivalent to Scotland, Wales or Ireland to us, a place where whatever differences, it's full of people who ordinary Russians consider to be family, friends etc. It's a holiday destination, and a place they could never have imagined invading by force.

There were good polls before that suggested he probably has a lot of convincing to do in Russia. The reality is that severe economic sanctions would grind their country to a halt, and many Russians now know this too. Whatever their beliefs about Soviet territory, or NATO's expansion, they can't avoid being the country second-most impacted by this.

I think he's gone mental. Wouldn't surprise me if he's dying, or had some kind of near-death moment, because this play is illogical. I also don't think he'd use nuclear weapons, or perhaps more importantly, I'm not altogether sure who or what controls their chain of command after him, but I'm pretty sure there will be people with grave doubts about his sanity after the other day.

However, this may be over before we get our act together.
 
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