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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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citybythesea said:
Why don’t they do this:

Agree Ukraine won’t join NATO under the proviso it won’t be there invaded by Russia or have at inference by them.

It will mean there won’t be any NATO on Russia’s border and Ukraine’s sovereignty will be upheld.

In the meantime Ukraine can modernise it’s forces to defend itself

All are happy
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Three problems with this though.

First off, it's in the Ukrainian constitution that they'll seek NATO membership.

Secondly, as a democracy Ukraine should have full say over their future. It shouldn't be decided by the USA or Russia, however inconvenient that is for Putin.

Lastly, could you trust Putin to keep to any agreement anyway?
 
Russia looks to have played a blinder.

The Ukraine is still an option for them and the west look divided. Now Putin is aware of how everyone will react and people know what to expect if they try to steal Russia's influence from them - I assume Russia has got some consessions from this.

Nice set of war games. We wait for the real thing.
 
APH said:
Three problems with this though.

First off, it's in the Ukrainian constitution that they'll seek NATO membership.

Secondly, as a democracy Ukraine should have full say over their future. It shouldn't be decided by the USA or Russia, however inconvenient that is for Putin.

Lastly, could you trust Putin to keep to any agreement anyway?
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Well unless their constitution is amended they’ll end up with an impasse at best……..conflict at worse
Both sides will need to compromise.
Ukraine will need to review whether membership would be in their best interests if it brings conflict.
Russia would need to be trusted to de-escalate if that guarantee were given.

I agree on the second point, Ukraine have been overlooked on negotiations. Mostly on behalf of Russia who clearly see them as part of their land.
A certain amount of trust would have to be given to Russia to do the right thing and respect the Ukraine sovereignty

On Your last point, no you can’t! but he’s the leader they have to deal with…..like it or not.
 
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Surely Ukrain can’t be kept on hold like this destroying it’s economy and a time when normality has to resume.
Russia could sit on its border for months now, I’m sure Putin would love to drain Ukrain of finance.
Or is this Putins goal ?

Watching RT is an indication I assume of how this is being sold to the Russian people.
 
arthursboy said:
Surely Ukrain can’t be kept on hold like this destroying it’s economy and a time when normality has to resume.
Russia could sit on its border for months now, I’m sure Putin would love to drain Ukrain of finance.
Or is this Putins goal ?

Watching RT is an indication I assume of how this is being sold to the Russian people.
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I think that is the plan. Say that he has NATO on his doorstep so not unreasonable to put Russian troops on their doorstep.

Said this before... I'm no fan of Putin at all but his logic can be compelling.

In response to USA saying he was an aggressor - response of "you are the guys deploying your troops in Estonia etc. Where are there Russian troops on the USA border?"

In response to "we don't want the first conflict in Europe since WW2" he said "you bombed Belgrade with cruise missiles & stealth bombers & accidentally blitzed the Chinese embassy".
 
Here's a web archive of a story The Sun ran last night which has since been edited. Its got the lot, high placed sources, US intelligence, military sources and a reminder that we can't trust a thing Putin says. Good job we've got these trustworthy fvckers to rely on.

You must be logged on to see external links
 
r@mside said:
Here's a web archive of a story The Sun ran last night which has since been edited. Its got the lot, high placed sources, US intelligence, military sources and a reminder that we can't trust a thing Putin says. Good job we've got these trustworthy fvckers to rely on.

You must be logged on to see external links
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The Sun 😆😁
 
Gelan said:
I'm wondering how many wars Russia has started, compared to how many they've had to finnish.
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Well Russia had an expansionist policy east of the Urals since the time of Ivan the Terrible since the 1500s but apart from that Russia had signed a pact with Nazi Germany and invaded and occupied the east of Poland in 1939. They then rounded up and executed 22,000 Polish officers and tried to blame it on the Germans. In the same year they invaded Finland. In 1808 Russia invaded what was to become Finland in a war with Sweden. The agreement with Nazi Germany also led to the invasion and annexation of the Republics of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia in 1940.

In general Russian invasions have occurred in the following:

Russo-Polish War (1654–1667)
Smolensk War, 1632–34
Sack of Baturyn, 1708
Destruction of the Zaporozhian Sich, 1775
Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Empire, 1783
Caucasian War, 1817–64
Russian invasion of Manchuria, 1900
Russian occupation of Tabriz, 1911
Russian invasion of East Prussia (1914)
Soviet–Ukrainian War (1917–1920)
Red Army invasion of Georgia, 1921
Hungarian Revolution of 1956
Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia, 1968
Russo-Georgian War, 2008

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Gelan said:
Yep, crap at history and spelling to boot :D
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Actually I think you've made some good posts on this thread.
 
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any de-escalation will be spun by all sides to be their own reported hard fought victory. As always, the truth will be lost among the career chasing politicians, the subservient media and the flag waving
 
They already invaded ukraine and when the sanctions hit the Russian economy it wiped out a third of their national reserves and plunged them into recession. Russia countered with closing some Mcdonalds in Russia under health and safety concerns.
 
citybythesea said:
Why don’t they do this:

Agree Ukraine won’t join NATO under the proviso it won’t be there invaded by Russia or have at inference by them.

It will mean there won’t be any NATO on Russia’s border and Ukraine’s sovereignty will be upheld.

In the meantime Ukraine can modernise it’s forces to defend itself

All are happy
Click to expand...
you mean apart from Norway, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland you mean
 
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