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Confirmed KLD only owns 41%

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sadsack01 said:
Agree and disagree. As a group of Madrox, they have their individual percentages contributing to the 59% of finances. One could disagree with a decision and the other two agree. It still doesn't matter though because once it goes to boardroom voting, they have to do whatever the vote decides.
Generally speaking, this kind of vote isn't on specific player transfers, for example, but how much to make available each window. Looking at January, we've actually spent more than people realise because we've brought in a few loans. Fees are normally associated with loans.
Matete is widely known to have been over 1m alone. Then consider all of the wages or percentage of wages to the parent club we'll be paying (plus agent fees etc)
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Our crowds are massive at this level and we are probably Knocking on a profit. My issue is continued funding if and when required. It certainly won't be getting put in Donald and Methven, probably not even Sartori
 

sadsack01 said:
Agree and disagree. As a group of Madrox, they have their individual percentages contributing to the 59% of finances. One could disagree with a decision and the other two agree. It still doesn't matter though because once it goes to boardroom voting, they have to do whatever the vote decides.
Generally speaking, this kind of vote isn't on specific player transfers, for example, but how much to make available each window. Looking at January, we've actually spent more than people realise because we've brought in a few loans. Fees are normally associated with loans.
Matete is widely known to have been over 1m alone. Then consider all of the wages or percentage of wages to the parent club we'll be paying (plus agent fees etc)
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Everything you say makes perfect business sense, but what you are missing completely here, is that whatever the voting rights, who owns what shares, who has a controlling interest or whatever, the lot of them, through smoke and mirrors, have led us to believe that KLD is the owner, and heralded the dawn of a new era.
Clearly not true, and we feel that we have been taken for mugs.
 
Madlad said:
Finally a bit of f***ing sense,
We'll find out tomorrow who has the overall governance and if there was a NDA , and if so because it has run out time wise or they've all agreed to remove it 🙄
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KLd has already said he's in control, I believe him. But madrox owning 59% of the club is still an issue and I don't buy that methven isn't involved, that's bullshit.

I believe KLD is in charge but I doubt I be putting my money into something madrox own 59% of.
 
Madlad said:
Finally a bit of f***ing sense,
We'll find out tomorrow who has the overall governance and if there was a NDA , and if so because it has run out time wise or they've all agreed to remove it 🙄
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On the NDA point, most of them have a specified life span.

KLD was announced as having bought in on 18th Feb last year. The NDA could have been in place for a 12 month period at the time of signing which could have been anywhere on or before 18th Feb...
 
Sam Handwich said:
The voting shares issue needs resolving though mate, because if those three stiil have voting shares then KLD is fucked. I think it will be the opposite, but he needs to come out tomorrow and address it. He doesn't need to give actual figures.
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Of course. I’d say if Donald has no vote in particular on the board he’s back in the game.
 
Georgewhitt said:
Everything you say makes perfect business sense, but what you are missing completely here, is that whatever the voting rights, who owns what shares, who has a controlling interest or whatever, the lot of them, through smoke and mirrors, have led us to believe that KLD is the owner, and heralded the dawn of a new era.
Clearly not true, and we feel that we have been taken for mugs.
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This, I believe KLD has the voting rights etc but I still have a major problem with them owning 59% of the club regardless of what calls the shots.
 
I don't want to read 88 pages of this, but I'm struggling to get my head around it all.

People are referring to some of the owners as conmen. Who have they conned? Did they ever say that they had a smaller share of the club than they do? KLD never said he owned more than half of the club, so I don't see how he's deceived anyone either, really.

I don't know enough about this, so I would appreciate being corrected if I have the wrong end of the stick.
 
Georgewhitt said:
Everything you say makes perfect business sense, but what you are missing completely here, is that whatever the voting rights, who owns what shares, who has a controlling interest or whatever, the lot of them, through smoke and mirrors, have led us to believe that KLD is the owner, and heralded the dawn of a new era.
Clearly not true, and we feel that we have been taken for mugs.
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They haven't though.

Since the beginning it was well known the Madrox lot reduced or maintained a percentage. So KLD couldn't possibly have been THE owner!
 
jsdftm04 said:
This, I believe KLD has the voting rights etc but I still have a major problem with them owning 59% of the club regardless of what calls the shots.
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Whats your problem though if all they have to do is stump up funds after losing a vote?
jsdftm04 said:
Strange how this is the accepted term on here now... yet I've had nowt but abuse for weeks for saying KLD doesn't have 50%.
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I've commented on this at the end of last year and provided links. It was well advertised KLD had bought in and the others kept a percentage, mainly SD reduced his.
 
sadsack01 said:
They haven't though.

Since the beginning it was well known the Madrox lot reduced or maintained a percentage. So KLD couldn't possibly have been THE owner!
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I'm not disagreeing with that.
But that is not how the narrative has been put across by them. Like I said, smoke and mirrors. If that was not their intention, why has it only come to light today that KLD only has 41%?
 
matt228 said:
I don't want to read 88 pages of this, but I'm struggling to get my head around it all.

People are referring to some of the owners as conmen. Who have they conned? Did they ever say that they had a smaller share of the club than they do? KLD never said he owned more than half of the club, so I don't see how he's deceived anyone either, really.

I don't know enough about this, so I would appreciate being corrected if I have the wrong end of the stick.
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No is the short answer, unless we find out differently by the question of voting share being addressed.
 
sadsack01 said:
I understand this bit due to the emotion involved and people looking at basic maths (like the person I replied to).

Take the emotion out of this, understanding how shareholdings can work and that nobody anywhere has ever called KLD "majority" shareholder, only always "controlling", and that's where we're at.

The question to ask at this meeting tomorrow is "how many votes does KLD have vs Madrox". It could be that KLD votes are 50 to Madrox 5 each and the non-execs and C levels have a percentage, for example. In which case, KLD IS controlling owner...as he has always called himself.
If KLD owns the majority votes, it doesn't matter if the others are skint, his voting overrules them so they have to do it (to answer the last part)
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The problem is (and without wanting to sound like Methven) most fans don't have a great knowledge of business. I certainly don't. Some do, of course, we've got some on this message board with a great understanding of it. The majority, not so much. But those involved at the club knew that. They knew that the statements they made, and the language around asset strippers, would be taken by the vast majority of fans to mean it was a takeover. KLD was the man. He's a billionaire who isn't going to fuck about with Donald and Methven. They've stayed but only because they wouldn't give up all their shares. I think a lot had a thought that they might have, I don't know, 5% each. Clinging on to a bit on the hope kld took us back to the Premier league and it could be worth £20m+. Is that naive? Possibly, but they knew how we'd view the takeover. So aye, maybe if you analyse the wording they haven't lied as such, but haway its still underhand as fuck.

And it does now raise major questions. Methven seems to have a fairly active role. Is he effectively working on behalf of Donald? Is he a sign of that 39% still having a say? They say all shareholders will meet their obligations, well whoop-de-f***ing-do, so they should. But we've seen precious little improvement. If we need to actually invest in order to improve and get out of this league will they be chipping in for that? We know now that we have to forensically analyse what they say. Meet obligations to me just suggests paying the bills. So if this great data driven approach doesn't bear fruit where do we go?

They need to cut out the bullshit and be properly transparent. Who has the voting shares? What decisions can kld make without agreement of others (and crucially what decisions can't he make)? Does he want to own 100% of the club? Is there a mechanism in place for him to achieve that in the short to medium term? It might not have been lying, but it's easy to see why a hell of a lot of fans are pissed off and feel they've been misled
 
Cheated this club out of its own money to pay for it
Proceeded to asset strip the club
Lied about the takeover and used KLD as a front to con the fans again

Donald and Charlie are criminals to this club as far as I'm concerned. Whilst Bob Murray and Ellis Short were well intended people who made mistakes and ultimately cared for the club, these two are parasites who do not have our best interests at heart.
 
sadsack01 said:
Whats your problem though if all they have to do is stump up funds after losing a vote?

I've commented on this at the end of last year and provided links. It was well advertised KLD had bought in and the others kept a percentage, mainly SD reduced his.
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I dont believe it'll just cause no issues at all.

The fact the echo is even running with madrox out, suggests we will probably see things come out in the wash even more pretty soon.
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
The problem is (and without wanting to sound like Methven) most fans don't have a great knowledge of business. I certainly don't. Some do, of course, we've got some on this message board with a great understanding of it. The majority, not so much. But those involved at the club knew that. They knew that the statements they made, and the language around asset strippers, would be taken by the vast majority of fans to mean it was a takeover. KLD was the man. He's a billionaire who isn't going to fuck about with Donald and Methven. They've stayed but only because they wouldn't give up all their shares. I think a lot had a thought that they might have, I don't know, 5% each. Clinging on to a bit on the hope kld took us back to the Premier league and it could be worth £20m+. Is that naive? Possibly, but they knew how we'd view the takeover. So aye, maybe if you analyse the wording they haven't lied as such, but haway its still underhand as fuck.

And it does now raise major questions. Methven seems to have a fairly active role. Is he effectively working on behalf of Donald? Is he a sign of that 39% still having a say? They say all shareholders will meet their obligations, well whoop-de-f***ing-do, so they should. But we've seen precious little improvement. If we need to actually invest in order to improve and get out of this league will they be chipping in for that? We know now that we have to forensically analyse what they say. Meet obligations to me just suggests paying the bills. So if this great data driven approach doesn't bear fruit where do we go?

They need to cut out the bullshit and be properly transparent. Who has the voting shares? What decisions can kld make without agreement of others (and crucially what decisions can't he make)? Does he want to own 100% of the club? Is there a mechanism in place for him to achieve that in the short to medium term? It might not have been lying, but it's easy to see why a hell of a lot of fans are pissed off and feel they've been misled
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It didn't help with people like Grumpy on here sniggering at people claiming he didn't have 50%. People took him as the oracle and the fact he's been in with madrox is an issue to me.

Now it's just ah well I was wrong.
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
The problem is (and without wanting to sound like Methven) most fans don't have a great knowledge of business. I certainly don't. Some do, of course, we've got some on this message board with a great understanding of it. The majority, not so much. But those involved at the club knew that. They knew that the statements they made, and the language around asset strippers, would be taken by the vast majority of fans to mean it was a takeover. KLD was the man. He's a billionaire who isn't going to fuck about with Donald and Methven. They've stayed but only because they wouldn't give up all their shares. I think a lot had a thought that they might have, I don't know, 5% each. Clinging on to a bit on the hope kld took us back to the Premier league and it could be worth £20m+. Is that naive? Possibly, but they knew how we'd view the takeover. So aye, maybe if you analyse the wording they haven't lied as such, but haway its still underhand as fuck.

And it does now raise major questions. Methven seems to have a fairly active role. Is he effectively working on behalf of Donald? Is he a sign of that 39% still having a say? They say all shareholders will meet their obligations, well whoop-de-f***ing-do, so they should. But we've seen precious little improvement. If we need to actually invest in order to improve and get out of this league will they be chipping in for that? We know now that we have to forensically analyse what they say. Meet obligations to me just suggests paying the bills. So if this great data driven approach doesn't bear fruit where do we go?

They need to cut out the bullshit and be properly transparent. Who has the voting shares? What decisions can kld make without agreement of others (and crucially what decisions can't he make)? Does he want to own 100% of the club? Is there a mechanism in place for him to achieve that in the short to medium term? It might not have been lying, but it's easy to see why a hell of a lot of fans are pissed off and feel they've been misled
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You know what to ask tomorrow then ;)

Agreed on your main point though - they were possibly playing word games with people who, generally, don't understand how it works at a business level. That is understandable.
However, even a quick google search for anyone of "majority or controlling shareholder" will show them what they need to know. Understanding it is a different thing altogether.
 
jsdftm04 said:
Strange how this is the accepted term on here now... yet I've had nowt but abuse for weeks for saying KLD doesn't have 50%.
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I wouldn't say abuse (at least not from me). Yes i said it was misinformation as at the time their was no evidence. Now there is.
 
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