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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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Lankester Merrin said:
Just can't help but think that maybe getting into a war with Russia in winter time might not be the best plan
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I would have thought it would be the Russians that will struggle with the weather as they will be doing the invading and moving troops as they go.

Ukraine will be entrenched in positions and won't be looking to take any ground so they can just dig in for as long as they can.
 
According to Croatian media its President said Ukraine doesn't belong in NATO and, just like the Ukraine security chief has said, reckons the threat of escalation comes from the West. If things do escalate to NATO involvement he won't allow his troops to be involved.

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One of my concerns is if we escalate this with Russia they will cut off the gas supplies to us and Europe. As we hold smaller stocks of gas than most of Europe we are particularly vulnerable. They are already turning the screw with the price increases.
The BBC linked to an article that, luckily enough, the Yanks are working with oil and gas suppliers to boost shipments to Europe.
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Not like the Yanks to miss an opportunity to make money out of their ‘allies’ during a crisis. Even more cynical to suggest that an economy that is leaking money like a sieve is cranking up the tension.
 
safc666 said:
One of my concerns is if we escalate this with Russia they will cut off the gas supplies to us and Europe. As we hold smaller stocks of gas than most of Europe we are particularly vulnerable. They are already turning the screw with the price increases.
The BBC linked to an article that, luckily enough, the Yanks are working with oil and gas suppliers to boost shipments to Europe.
You must be logged on to see external links

Not like the Yanks to miss an opportunity to make money out of their ‘allies’ during a crisis. Even more cynical to suggest that an economy that is leaking money like a sieve is cranking up the tension.
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Ukraine fvcked no matter what then.
 
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An estimated 100,000 Russian troops are amassed on the Ukraine border. Mr Biden said if Vladimir Putin were to order them to move in “it would be the largest invasion since World War II, it would change the world.”

Off the top of my head, China invaded Vietnam with more troops, US led invasion of Iraq, Russia in Afghanistan, Russia/Warsaw Pact taking Czechoslovakia, Iraq into Kuwait, Iraq into Iran (and vice versa), Vietnam (North & South), Korea (North & South), Israel in the Six Day War (does that count?). Any others that anyone can think of that have involved more troops?
 
Alcoholic_Author said:
Ask yourself, as time has progressed do more and more people adhere to your message here? Is the world getting better? Children want to eat sweets for every meal but we inflict unto them great harm by forcing them to eat their vegetables. The world is not an endless vinegar stroke until death.
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Yes...but that one factor means nothing, and doesn't define who and what I am. Your opinion of me is just that.

I wish you well.
 
Baloo said:
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An estimated 100,000 Russian troops are amassed on the Ukraine border. Mr Biden said if Vladimir Putin were to order them to move in “it would be the largest invasion since World War II, it would change the world.”

Off the top of my head, China invaded Vietnam with more troops, US led invasion of Iraq, Russia in Afghanistan, Russia/Warsaw Pact taking Czechoslovakia, Iraq into Kuwait, Iraq into Iran (and vice versa), Vietnam (North & South), Korea (North & South), Israel in the Six Day War (does that count?). Any others that anyone can think of that have involved more troops?
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The footy lads invading Toulouse.
 
Baloo said:
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An estimated 100,000 Russian troops are amassed on the Ukraine border. Mr Biden said if Vladimir Putin were to order them to move in “it would be the largest invasion since World War II, it would change the world.”

Off the top of my head, China invaded Vietnam with more troops, US led invasion of Iraq, Russia in Afghanistan, Russia/Warsaw Pact taking Czechoslovakia, Iraq into Kuwait, Iraq into Iran (and vice versa), Vietnam (North & South), Korea (North & South), Israel in the Six Day War (does that count?). Any others that anyone can think of that have involved more troops?
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USA themselves in Vietnam.
 
RokerLegend said:
I would have thought it would be the Russians that will struggle with the weather as they will be doing the invading and moving troops as they go.

Ukraine will be entrenched in positions and won't be looking to take any ground so they can just dig in for as long as they can.
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If the latest Armenia/Azerbaijan conflict is anything to go by the initial attack by Russia would be drone attacks to decimate the Ukraine trenches. Armenia lost a huge amount of soldiers in that way and drones were a lot more effective then missiles or fighter jets on targeting.

The West have given them some decent anti tank equipment that could apparently be very effective against Russian tanks but not sure how effective Ukraine can air defend against drones.

A lot of defence experts seem to think Russia os still weeks away anyway. There are loads of troop movements but apparently the more tell tale signs of logistics, fuel, major ammunition movements to the front line have not been seen in big numbers. They also apparently need airborne troops and military police/national guard to hold territory which again at the moment there is not much of at the front line. So it might still be Putin just applying pressure
 
MonkeyLove said:
If the latest Armenia/Azerbaijan conflict is anything to go by the initial attack by Russia would be drone attacks to decimate the Ukraine trenches. Armenia lost a huge amount of soldiers in that way and drones were a lot more effective then missiles or fighter jets on targeting.

The West have given them some decent anti tank equipment that could apparently be very effective against Russian tanks but not sure how effective Ukraine can air defend against drones.

A lot of defence experts seem to think Russia os still weeks away anyway. There are loads of troop movements but apparently the more tell tale signs of logistics, fuel, major ammunition movements to the front line have not been seen in big numbers. They also apparently need airborne troops and military police/national guard to hold territory which again at the moment there is not much of at the front line. So it might still be Putin just applying pressure
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Russia weren't invading Nagorno-Karabakh.

Are any of these military analysts discussing how Russia will maintain any degree of order in Ukraine, do they think it can install a pro-Russian leader and sent the troops back home?
 
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r@mside said:
Russia weren't invading Nagorno-Karabakh.

Are any of these military analysts discussing how Russia will maintain any degree of order in Ukraine, do they think it can install a pro-Russian leader and sent the troops back home?
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No but the basis of drones playing a major part is still likely to come into play. Guided missiles are very expensive and alternatives aren’t that accurate, fighter jets have challenges. Drones have been a game changer as loitering ones can very accurately target troops dug into positions and the suggestion is before Russia sends tanks and troops as lambs to the slaughter towards Ukrainian positions they will target where Ukraine is dug in from the air. The military police and national guard would be needed to maintain order which is exactly why most experts seem to be saying an invasion doesn’t look imminent.

No one seems to know what Putins endgame would be. Some suggest an incursion to stir up internal unrest and then support a Russian leaning leader. Others suggest he is more ambitious and wants Ukraine to cease to exist by splitting it in two from the Dnieper river. No one but him really knows
 
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MonkeyLove said:
No but the basis of drones playing a major part is still likely to come into play. Guided missiles are very expensive and alternatives aren’t that accurate, fighter jets have challenges. Drones have been a game changer as loitering ones can very accurately target troops dug into positions and the suggestion is before Russia sends tanks and troops as lambs to the slaughter towards Ukrainian positions they will target where Ukraine is dug in from the air. The military police and national guard would be needed to maintain order which is exactly why most experts seem to be saying an invasion doesn’t look imminent.

No one seems to know what Putins endgame would be. Some suggest an incursion to stir up internal unrest and then support a Russian leaning leader. Others suggest he is more ambitious and wants Ukraine to cease to exist by splitting it in two from the Dnieper river. No one but him really knows
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Well, I think it's unlikely to happen for the simple reason none of the rhetoric in our media and from our politicians makes the slightest bit of sense, on any level, especially when stacked up against what Ukraine and Russian military officials are saying.

Drones may be useful for targeted and tactical killing but have poor to no effect on the strategic outcome, you only have to look at Israel v Lebanon & Gazza, US v Syria & Iraq, NATO in Afghanistan etc to see they don't necessarily achieve anything.

Since the end of the cold war we're used to going into conflict for bogus reasons with no strategic benefit but I'm not sure that can be said of Russia. Is it really their end game, which they've spelled out btw, that we should be worried about?
 
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I am pleased to announce that we are supporting the Ukrainian armed forces by sending a supply of cake to ambush the Russians with.
 
r@mside said:
Well, I think it's unlikely to happen for the simple reason none of the rhetoric in our media and from our politicians makes the slightest bit of sense, on any level, especially when stacked up against what Ukraine and Russian military officials are saying.

Drones may be useful for targeted and tactical killing but have poor to no effect on the strategic outcome, you only have to look at Israel v Lebanon & Gazza, US v Syria & Iraq, NATO in Afghanistan etc to see they don't necessarily achieve anything.

Since the end of the cold war we're used to going into conflict for bogus reasons with no strategic benefit but I'm not sure that can be said of Russia. Is it really their end game, which they've spelled out btw, that we should be worried about?
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Eh? In none of those scenarios you have listed were drones used in a war like scenario.

Israel has no interest at the moment in invading Lebanon or Gaza.
The US weren’t trying to invade Syria or Iraq
Same with Afghanistan.

The only example where drones have been used recently on the front line is in Armenia/Azerbaijan where Armenia lost over 4,000 men the vast majority through Drone based air strikes they had no answer to and therefore had to surrender.

Prior to that they were exchanging heavy fire and artillery in a stalemate. Azerbaijan employed Turkish TB2 drones and they were a game changer.

So if Russia want to take land (Not just do a targeted killing from the sky) they will need to hammer Ukrainian front lines before they send in troops and tanks. Otherwise the Ukrainians have the ability to cause massive damage to their tanks with the javelins etc… that the West have supplied them.

So I do see drones being very important for Russia to soften up the Ukrainian front lines and if they can’t defend against them they will be sitting ducks. Without drones Russia has to engage in ground combat against dug in positions which will be a bloodbath for them
 
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