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Rory Burns

TheRey said:
He refuses to bat at 3, let alone open!
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It's a cop out imo, he's captain and one of the more senior members of the team. Wants to hide away from the new ball but it doesn't work as we don't have openers who can see it off
 

JackL said:
It's a cop out imo, he's captain and one of the more senior members of the team. Wants to hide away from the new ball but it doesn't work as we don't have openers who can see it off
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complete and utter nonsense

his average plummet when he bats at 3, the team suffers because of it

He has just scored the most runs by an Englishman in a year in history, is closing in on the world record

only on the SMB would he get criticism for this :lol:
 
The Rat said:
complete and utter nonsense

his average plummet when he bats at 3, the team suffers because of it

He has just scored the most runs by an Englishman in a year in history, is closing in on the world record

only on the SMB would he get criticism for this :lol:
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It's not nonsense, it's an opinion which is valid. Why should malan have to come in and bat 3 when he's been out of the team for so long?
 
JackL said:
It's not nonsense, it's an opinion which is valid. Why should malan have to come in and bat 3 when he's been out of the team for so long?
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Because he plays number 3 for his county

Root is not a number 3, he averages 15 less than at number 4

How on earth can you question Root after the year he has had man :lol:
 
The Rat said:
Because he plays number 3 for his county

Root is not a number 3, he averages 15 less than at number 4

How on earth can you question Root after the year he has had man :lol:
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Playing 3 at County v International are very different as I'm sure you're aware.

Root has had a very good year, doesn't make him exempt from criticism. It could be argued that if Root batted at 5 he'd have an even higher average than what he has now
 
JackL said:
Playing 3 at County v International are very different as I'm sure you're aware.

Root has had a very good year, doesn't make him exempt from criticism. It could be argued that if Root batted at 5 he'd have an even higher average than what he has now
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Not sure what moving Root up the order achieves? Who bats at 4? Pope who can’t score many runs at 6. Then we would need another middle order player, Lawrence next in line averaging less than 30
 
The Rat said:
Yeah the first line is exactly what I want from an opener

and from the squad against pace bowling on these pitches, from the squad they picked, I believe Crawley is a lot better suited

Burns also has an extreme weakness against left arm pace, and Oz have the best in the world.

Pope can come again but I am geuinelly annoyed at him, cant get mad at Burns, its a technical thing, Pope for me isnt willing to work hard, dancing down the pitch to Lyon that early on, and every innings, is just poor batting, poor thought process.

I wouldnt have taken him to Australia, sounds harsh but he needs a break from test match cricket IMO, he will come agai

What annoys me about this series, is that people forget how quickly its over, you havent got 3 or 4 test matches to find form etc, 3 innings in, and its already gone.

Theres no way Pope was going to score runs in that first test, he just isnt prepared. Waste of a selection
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He did ok in the first innings . Don’t understand why you would lay the blame at the 23 year old . His talent suggests he will come again . I would certainly leave him out but he’s not the biggest issue
 
JackL said:
It's not nonsense, it's an opinion which is valid. Why should malan have to come in and bat 3 when he's been out of the team for so long?
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Because Root averages 40 more runs per match batting at 4.

Root has never refused to bat at three. Not ever. He's played 30 matches at 3 including most of 2018 and 2019, as well as last year. Literally last year.

It benefits the team to have Root at 4, end of story.
 
Jack Torrance said:
Not sure what moving Root up the order achieves? Who bats at 4? Pope who can’t score many runs at 6. Then we would need another middle order player, Lawrence next in line averaging less than 30
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Steak Pie said:
Because Root averages 40 more runs per match batting at 4.

Root has never refused to bat at three. Not ever. He's played 30 matches at 3 including most of 2018 and 2019, as well as last year. Literally last year.

It benefits the team to have Root at 4, end of story.
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Ok, but it makes no difference if the openers can't see off the new ball anyway. He may as well be batting at 3 until they can replace burns and hameed gets more experience
 
JackL said:
Ok, but it makes no difference if the openers can't see off the new ball anyway. He may as well be batting at 3 until they can replace burns and hameed gets more experience
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Psychological. Top level sport is all about tiny margins, and Root is obviously more comfortable at 4. Maybe it's the 10 minutes or so he gets before he has to pad up after the fall of the first wicket, just a few minutes to switch off after captaining the field. Who knows? But we're ten years into his career and the results are comprehensive.

We moved him up to 3 and we destroyed his form, moved him back to 4 and it picked up again. We did the same with Bairstow and Moeen in the middle order, moved them out of the comfort zone to try and fix problems elsewhere and we ended up destroying them both.

We have this weird fascination with, when we have something great, dicking around with it until we break it. I'll never understand it.
 
He is a thought, It may be that Root scored runs in the summer because he is a class act was full of confidence and playing well.

And it had absolutely nothing to do with the actual number he came in to bat!!

Personally I think form, confidence etc is much more important than 1 different position in the order always have
 
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The search for a top 3 continues

Been a problem since Strauss retired then turned into a crisis once Cook called it a day also

the talent might not be there but Jesus they don’t have a chance with the way the ECB have decided to structure the domestic game

Also the preparation for this tour has been awful how many of them in the squad were reluctant to travel no real warm up games etc
 
Jack Torrance said:
Malan is doing well at 3, why move him?
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I would not move him, however I honestly think too much made of one position higher or lower in a batting order

Again surely more of a factor for Malan playing well is the fact Aussie wickets suit him better and that he probably gained confidence by playing well in international cricket in the shorter format.

The above is a miles bigger factor than whether he bats, 3,4,5 or wherever imo
 
Voice of fair play said:
I would not move him, however I honestly think too much made of one position higher or lower in a batting order

Again surely more of a factor for Malan playing well is the fact Aussie wickets suit him better and that he probably gained confidence by playing well in international cricket in the shorter format.

The above is a miles bigger factor than whether he bats, 3,4,5 or wherever imo
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Its not though

its a fact

he averages like 13/15 less

thats proof of the difference it makes to him, it cant be disputed
 
Voice of fair play said:
I would not move him, however I honestly think too much made of one position higher or lower in a batting order

Again surely more of a factor for Malan playing well is the fact Aussie wickets suit him better and that he probably gained confidence by playing well in international cricket in the shorter format.

The above is a miles bigger factor than whether he bats, 3,4,5 or wherever imo
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Root averages 38 at 3 and 53 at 4. It clearly makes a difference for him
 
Jack Torrance said:
Root averages 38 at 3 and 53 at 4. It clearly makes a difference for him
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Buttler averages a lot more at 6 than he does at 7, don’t think it’s because he is particular suited at 6 rather than 7 think it’s just pure coincidence.

It is difficult to argue with Root stats as you have illustrated, but it could be similar.

A lot of Root stats and scores at 4 have been early in a innings when a number 3 would normally come in.

Root is brilliant the form he was in this summer and the way he was batting he would have scored a lot of runs wherever he batted imo.

But like I say 15 is a big difference and see your point.
The Rat said:
Its not though

its a fact

he averages like 13/15 less

thats proof of the difference it makes to him, it cant be disputed
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I think for Malan Aussie wickets suit him better, and for him in particular that is a bigger factor.
 
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The Rat said:
Its not though

its a fact

he averages like 13/15 less

thats proof of the difference it makes to him, it cant be disputed
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He also averages 14 more batting at five than four. By your logic he should bat at five.

Or, looking at it another way, most batsmen score better, batting further down the order. If Root bats three, the chances are the batsman at four will score the 15 runs Joe didn't.

Individual average is a meaningless stat. What matters is the average team score when Root bats four versus three.
 
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