WMS Who Owns Sunderland AFC?

[Hep]

I really hope you're on a wind up. I suspect you are tbf.

Let's no rewrite history here. They weren't the only ones interested in the club. They may, however, been the only ones willing to use the parachute money the way they did.

Who else was willing to pay Short what he wanted?

It's absolutely necessary to know who owns the club. Not sure why so many people are so desperate not to know tbh.

why is it absolutely necessary?

 

[riffraff]

Agreed, it's pathetic. Not going to pretend to know as much about business as some on here, but there must be places in town with a relatively low rent (I know the bridge is meant to be expensive but you'd think in a city centre with plenty available places you'd find one reasonable one). Open a club shop there, then either open the club shop on a match day or at least have some sort of mobile merchandise unit so people can get strips, scarves and the likes and direct them to the city centre outlet for anything you don't have in stock.

Agreed.
I posted a few years back when the club shops dotted around the NE were closing that we need mobile shops. Theyre all ower outside grounds at tournaments like the euros and WCs.
A few big mobile vans going round the markets and town centres and shopping centres of the NE midweek and then around the car parks etc outside the ground on match days to catch fans coming from all the major pedestrian routes ower the surrounding area.
Theres no passing trade on the far side of the ground, nivver has been, nivver will be. The logic of building the ticket office away from the ground but not the club shop is plain unadulterated lunacy.

 

[kildaremackem]

Agreed.
I posted a few years back when the club shops dotted around the NE were closing that we need mobile shops. Theyre all ower outside grounds at tournaments like the euros and WCs.
A few big mobile vans going round the markets and town centres and shopping centres of the NE midweek and then around the car parks etc outside the ground on match days to catch fans coming from all the major pedestrian routes ower the surrounding area.
Theres no passing trade on the far side of the ground, nivver has been, nivver will be. The logic of building the ticket office away from the ground but not the club shop is plain unadulterated lunacy.

excellent post/idea

 

[North Yorks Mackem]

short said the opposite..other buyers had something worse in mind for the club, which involved making the club owe the new buyers the £25m...and donald et al were the only ones who wouldnt do this so they got the deal.

short was trying to sell for a very long time before a buyer was found..indiicating there was not a huge queue of credible people..same as when KLD came in..before him it was a lot of waifs and strays like Mark Campbell and that fella who was all over the press.

Here you are. Predictable as a bear shitting in the woods. Other people say differently. But there's a reason you're here and most of us see through it now.

 

[martinlumley]

There's a canny few posters on here pretending they know what they're talking about.

 

[riffraff]

well i dont know about the ASAP bit as thats a very inprecise term..but i think they bought with profit in mind...and a combination of vast off the scale incompetence and Donalds vanity-his desire to be seen as a big man, as demonstrated by the Grigg deal-scuppered their plans. I also think they very niave about what it means to own a business with the profile and support base of SAFC-its not like owning any other business..even businesses bigger in size..from day one I said donalds record at eastleigh pointed to him being incompetent at running football clubs...but i didnt anticipate he would be as bad at it as it subsequently proved he was at safc..i mostly see donald as a petulant bufoonish character-rather than a malevolent, sinister one as often is protrayed on here-whereas i think methven, while also bufoonish, was more malovent.

Malovent! I wonder How many on here have had to look that one up?
I think you’re spot on tbh. I was on your/CMs case from the moment your/his trouser colour was mentioned while I was merely worried when the £10m Donald spent to move Eastleigh up one division in the pyramid was mentioned. Having said that it’d be interesting to see a breakdown of what the £10m spent entailed. Infrastructure? Player signings? Training ground? Team bus? Wages? Club shop…….

 

[6inarow]

Agreed.
I posted a few years back when the club shops dotted around the NE were closing that we need mobile shops. Theyre all ower outside grounds at tournaments like the euros and WCs.
A few big mobile vans going round the markets and town centres and shopping centres of the NE midweek and then around the car parks etc outside the ground on match days to catch fans coming from all the major pedestrian routes ower the surrounding area.
Theres no passing trade on the far side of the ground, nivver has been, nivver will be. The logic of building the ticket office away from the ground but not the club shop is plain unadulterated lunacy.

Theres an empty Audi garage there which would be ideal, its just sitting there going to waste....for the money they were going to spend putting the shop in the ticket office and vise versa would have made sense just to have it standing alone in there....dunno how much an empty car garage would be although is the ground its on owned by the club?

 

[riffraff]

Smoke and mirrors mate. Labelling a strategy as a “long term project” just encourages the fans to be more accepting of failures by making them believe it’s all for the greater good. Because at some point in the future it will be worth it. It’s just the same failures and disappointments but just with a reason for happening.

why is it absolutely necessary?

Do an internet search for Bury football club. Then Derby County football club. Then Luton Town football club. Then Bolton Wanderers football club. Then Blackburn Rovers football club.
I could give you a list of 20+ current and former FL clubs that have seriously damaged by untrustworthy and/or stupid owners but if as I suspect you’re not convinced by the above stories then you never will be So doing so won’t be worth Rogers dandwidth.

 

[kildaremackem]

Malovent! I wonder How many on here have had to look that one up?
I think you’re spot on tbh. I was on your/CMs case from the moment your/his trouser colour was mentioned while I was merely worried when the £10m Donald spent to move Eastleigh up one division in the pyramid was mentioned. Having said that it’d be interesting to see a breakdown of what the £10m spent entailed. Infrastructure? Player signings? Training ground? Team bus? Wages? Club shop…….

i think the £10m definitely included a new stand or an improvement to a stand...but even spending £1m on wages at that level would be vast.

 

[riffraff]

Smoke and mirrors mate. Labelling a strategy as a “long term project” just encourages the fans to be more accepting of failures by making them believe it’s all for the greater good. Because at some point in the future it will be worth it. It’s just the same failures and disappointments but just with a reason for happening.

Spot on. Long term should be reserved for off the pitch and understandably so. On pitch long term is getting their excuses in first.

excellent post/idea

Mine always are mate. We’d be ten times CL champions if Murray had sold to my consortium. IE this place minus the nut jobs.

There's a canny few posters on here pretending they know what they're talking about.

On here wadnt exist…….

 

[North Yorks Mackem]

Who else was willing to pay Short what he wanted?

why is it absolutely necessary?

Details weren't disclosed of the other interested parties werent disclosed (it would be strange if they were). I think @GarethQ and the lads at WMS could vouch for there being other another interested party who were wanting to take the club on better terms than Donald. i.e. have the parachute money go into the club.

 

[kildaremackem]

Details weren't disclosed of the other interested parties werent disclosed (it would be strange if they were). I think @GarethQ and the lads at WMS could vouch for there being other another interested party who were wanting to take the club on better terms than Donald. i.e. have the parachute money go into the club.

but "better terms" is defined by short as the owner...by SBC as the creditor and by the league. Im sure the last one wouldnt have been an issue but the best offer short got was the one he accepted. And others wanted to port the debt, which is what a real asset stripper would do.

 

[Nathan Gunn]

I've always thought it would have made more sense to have the club shop in the ticket office building. Right next to the car park and impossible not to see it when driving past. Guaranteed to get more people in the shop there than where it is now.

Move shop to ticket office building and make current shop a bar which opens on matchdays.

 

[Hep]

Do an internet search for Bury football club. Then Derby County football club. Then Luton Town football club. Then Bolton Wanderers football club. Then Blackburn Rovers football club.
I could give you a list of 20+ current and former FL clubs that have seriously damaged by untrustworthy and/or stupid owners but if as I suspect you’re not convinced by the above stories then you never will be So doing so won’t be worth Rogers dandwidth.

And did their fans know who the owners were and did that prevent anything from happening???

The answer is yes, the owners were known and no it didn't change anything.

 

[CissesUnderpants9]

Instead of speculating, on who has what shares would it not be wiser, to wait on the RAWA mins, and see what has been wrote and agreed.

 

[Hep]

Details weren't disclosed of the other interested parties werent disclosed (it would be strange if they were). I think @GarethQ and the lads at WMS could vouch for there being other another interested party who were wanting to take the club on better terms than Donald. i.e. have the parachute money go into the club.

So why would Ellis sell to someone on worse terms??

 

[CissesUnderpants9]

I've always thought it would have made more sense to have the club shop in the ticket office building. Right next to the car park and impossible not to see it when driving past. Guaranteed to get more people in the shop there than where it is now.

Move shop to ticket office building and make current shop a bar which opens on matchdays.

Or you could have it in the bridges maybe right in the heart of the shopping distinct of the city.

 

[North Yorks Mackem]

but "better terms" is defined by short as the owner...by SBC as the creditor and by the league. Im sure the last one wouldnt have been an issue but the best offer short got was the one he accepted. And others wanted to port the debt, which is what a real asset stripper would do.

Is "port the debt" a common phrase? Only ever heard Stewart Donald use those words tbf.

And how do you know what other parties wanted to do?

So why would Ellis sell to someone on worse terms??

I dont know. I'm not him. But what was better for Sunderland wasn't necessarily better for Ellis Short.

 

[Confucius]

Spot on. Long term should be reserved for off the pitch and understandably so. On pitch long term is getting their excuses in first.

I have to agree with that bit. Ive said all along there is no point in having a long term plan if the foundations are weak as piss (playing/coaching front). But also we could never be sustainable without spending first

 

[kildaremackem]

Is "port the debt" a common phrase? Only ever heard Stewart Donald use those words tbf.

And how do you know what other parties wanted to do?

I dont know. I'm not him. But what was better for Sunderland wasn't necessarily better for Ellis Short.

but whoever boughtthe club was doing what was best for Ellis more than sunderland, as the owner Ellis could dictate that and when he saidhe was having the parachute money as a refund on cash he put in...buyers could agree or agree not to be buyers...now you can justifiably say no good buyer would agree to that, and you can certainly say all of the above doesnt remove the moral obligation on Donald to put the £25m back in...and id agree...but all of the above is different from donald stealing the money or using the clubs money to buy the club. The club was sold for £12.7m on condition short could have the para money. Donald paid the £12.7m himself (or with sartori)..his stupid comment that they "gave" ellis £40m reflects him consenting to a deal where short took the £25m from the club...again you can criticise donald for hi stupidity with that comment or for the poor deal he got..but its a long way from theft.