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Why are putting up with medoricty

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ironman said:
Season after season it’s the same excuses we are a premier league club with a third rate coach
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What makes us a premier league club exactly? A stadium with lots of seats? The fact we won the FA cup 48 years ago? That we finished 7th in the PL a few times?
 

kildaremackem said:
he didnt succeed jack ross as manager he succeeded phi; parkison..thats his benchmark. your right, the club hasnt progressed since johsnon, but thats not his fault-he wasnt there for the parkisnon era.
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OK but that was a truncated season in bizarre circumstances. For seasons which have naturally finished going out in the shambolic fashion that we did in the Play Offs could be strongly argued that it was the worst season in our history. However, this thread is about putting up with mediocrity. For a club of our size finishing 4th and failing in the play off semis is nothing to write home about. Similarly for Bristol City finishing 18th, 17th, 12th and 8th is nothing to write home about. Lee Johnson may be good at coaching individual players, he may slowly improve clubs standings but to argue his record of league finishes is anything other than mediocre is being a bit perverse. Every other manager we mention has a record of achieving promotion - Ross, Parko, Poyet, Wilder, Cowley. It sticks out like a sore thumb that Johnson does not. His managerial record is the definition of mediocrity. And he's a club that is literally 'ready to go'. You can argue he's the factor that's holding us back.
 
MunkyHeed said:
What makes us a premier league club exactly? A stadium with lots of seats? The fact we won the FA cup 48 years ago? That we finished 7th in the PL a few times?
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Simply the combination of the stadium, fan base and history. A team like Brentford are in the Premier League and they are there on merit same as we are in Division One through poor management and ownership. Doesn’t mean you have to like, agree or accept it. In fact once you accept it, it can become the norm.
 
10 Gary Rowells said:
OK but that was a truncated season in bizarre circumstances. For seasons which have naturally finished going out in the shambolic fashion that we did in the Play Offs could be strongly argued that it was the worst season in our history. However, this thread is about putting up with mediocrity. For a club of our size finishing 4th and failing in the play off semis is nothing to write home about. Similarly for Bristol City finishing 18th, 17th, 12th and 8th is nothing to write home about. Lee Johnson may be good at coaching individual players, he may slowly improve clubs standings but to argue his record of league finishes is anything other than mediocre is being a bit perverse. Every other manager we mention has a record of achieving promotion - Ross, Parko, Poyet, Wilder, Cowley. It sticks out like a sore thumb that Johnson does not. His managerial record is the definition of mediocrity. And he's a club that is literally 'ready to go'. You can argue he's the factor that's holding us back.
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the club may well be ready to fgo now..but it wasnt when he arrived-to what extent is he lumbered with the shote of previous years in terms of culture and players? ross got promotion in basically part time leagues.....thats much less consequentlial than coaching a team to come 8th in the champo. also 18th 17th 12th 8th indicates he improced BCFC every year he was there.

wilder is dfinietly a better manager than johsnon, but then he is a better manager than all the others you mention as well
 
kildaremackem said:
the club may well be ready to fgo now..but it wasnt when he arrived-to what extent is he lumbered with the shote of previous years in terms of culture and players? ross got promotion in basically part time leagues.....thats much less consequentlial than coaching a team to come 8th in the champo. also 18th 17th 12th 8th indicates he improced BCFC every year he was there.

wilder is dfinietly a better manager than johsnon, but then he is a better manager than all the others you mention as well
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Fair enough. I think LJ's record as a coach is very mediocre and a 4th place finish and a play off semi-final defeat is under par for us. He has the chance to finally achieve something of note in his career this year. If he continues with his good run/bad run pattern he will fail and I think he will rightly lose his job if we don't go up. The deflective excuses he is coming out with at the moment do not bode well but it really doesn't matter as its all down to him now getting the best out of what is a decent squad for this level.
 
robbied1 said:
Never once I have celebrated us getting to the pizza cup final, or winning it, I said at the time it was embarrassing and got pelters as usual.
It's a competition that's beneath us,since we dropped into league 1 I've said we should sack every cup competition off and concentrate on the league ,no excuses.
It infuriates me that someone here are thinking about winning the league cup, I know most of it is in jest , but even fans talking about getting into Europe just by making the final,theydonteven realise you don't get in europe that way.
People need to wake up, the only way we get out of this league is by fully concentrating on the league no distractions, no Wembley cup final in an awful competition. The first thing I would do is sack LJ and appoint Neil Warnock even if he just has a contract till the end of the season, sign 4 experienced players in jan, the first being a decent experienced keeper.
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Didn't think it was possible to be a Sunderland supporter whilst being defined as a glory support but...here we are.
 
kildaremackem said:
the club may well be ready to fgo now..but it wasnt when he arrived-to what extent is he lumbered with the shote of previous years in terms of culture and players? ross got promotion in basically part time leagues.....thats much less consequentlial than coaching a team to come 8th in the champo. also 18th 17th 12th 8th indicates he improced BCFC every year he was there.

wilder is dfinietly a better manager than johsnon, but then he is a better manager than all the others you mention as well
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if it is true and LJ improved BC each year he was there…. Why did they sack him? Simple answer really, his target was to get promotion and he failed.

if we finish 3rd this year then technically he improved us but still failed in his objective.
 
10 Gary Rowells said:
Fair enough. I think LJ's record as a coach is very mediocre and a 4th place finish and a play off semi-final defeat is under par for us. He has the chance to finally achieve something of note in his career this year. If he continues with his good run/bad run pattern he will fail and I think he will rightly lose his job if we don't go up. The deflective excuses he is coming out with at the moment do not bode well but it really doesn't matter as its all down to him now getting the best out of what is a decent squad for this level.
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as far as i can see he is here long term whether promoted or not. If we are not promoted it will be because we narrowly missed out which will make the board think we can go one better next time.
 
Some fans are content to put up with it...Deluded in their optimism, call people negative or toxic for mentioning the facts/realities. This new owner is the same as Stumpy and Slimy, he'll start getting called a chancer in 18 months, in that time, another 2 seasons wasted....... The club is going nowhere fast and the so called longterm plan is horseshit!
 
andysafc24 said:
if it is true and LJ improved BC each year he was there…. Why did they sack him? Simple answer really, his target was to get promotion and he failed.

if we finish 3rd this year then technically he improved us but still failed in his objective.
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yes and I said he faield there....but that was his worst performance as a manager pre safc and he still improcved them every year.

if safc come third and winthe play offs he will have succeeded here-but we dont know wjhat target he has been goven by the owner.
 
kildaremackem said:
but midtable is successful for some clubs in some leagues!
and it certainy was for the clubs he managed!
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Barnsley had just been relegated and were expected to bounce back. They finished 11th first season following Johnson taking over with the club in 16th with a 1.5ppg. He then left Barnsley at the start of Feb with them in 12th. Paul Heckingbottom took over and got them to 6th and promoted through the playoffs with a PPG of 1.94 then winning each game in the play off. (more than Johnsons ever managed.)
At Oldham he did well to keep their current standing as a midtable league 1 team, but did lose 7 of his last 12 games including a 7-0, 4-0 and 3-0 defeat.
After his last game he stated
Oldham Athletic manager Lee Johnson told BBC Radio Manchester:

"I thought the lads, individually, played well and I thought we kept going right to the end.

"It was a game that was won on the little events. I'm talking about a couple of little referee decisions which gave them a head of steam.

"If I have got a criticisms of us, it's just that little soft underbelly. When it comes to the business end of the season you have got to have men and you've got to have leaders."


He has not changed or learned from that point.
At Bristol he then again kept them at a similar level achieved a decent finish at the end of his final season but still was going through streaks of games of losing consistently and blowing a chance at promotion. He was also one of the better backed managers in that period. He is overall an alright manager but not what is needed for building a team for promotions. He needs to start learning at a faster rate, rather than the persona he puts on of a super intelligent and tactical maestro. The fact is at each club the same failings have been present, with fans all saying the same thing about him. I just dont think he was ever the right man for this job, though no doubt there would be other teams he could do a solid enough job for.
 
SAFC11 said:
Barnsley had just been relegated and were expected to bounce back. They finished 11th first season following Johnson taking over with the club in 16th with a 1.5ppg. He then left Barnsley at the start of Feb with them in 12th. Paul Heckingbottom took over and got them to 6th and promoted through the playoffs with a PPG of 1.94 then winning each game in the play off. (more than Johnsons ever managed.)
At Oldham he did well to keep their current standing as a midtable league 1 team, but did lose 7 of his last 12 games including a 7-0, 4-0 and 3-0 defeat.
After his last game he stated
Oldham Athletic manager Lee Johnson told BBC Radio Manchester:

"I thought the lads, individually, played well and I thought we kept going right to the end.

"It was a game that was won on the little events. I'm talking about a couple of little referee decisions which gave them a head of steam.

"If I have got a criticisms of us, it's just that little soft underbelly. When it comes to the business end of the season you have got to have men and you've got to have leaders."


He has not changed or learned from that point.
At Bristol he then again kept them at a similar level achieved a decent finish at the end of his final season but still was going through streaks of games of losing consistently and blowing a chance at promotion. He was also one of the better backed managers in that period. He is overall an alright manager but not what is needed for building a team for promotions. He needs to start learning at a faster rate, rather than the persona he puts on of a super intelligent and tactical maestro. The fact is at each club the same failings have been present, with fans all saying the same thing about him. I just dont think he was ever the right man for this job, though no doubt there would be other teams he could do a solid enough job for.
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so why did he get a better job ie higher division if he faield in those jobs?
 
From the articles I have read, when LJ agreed to take the job, KS said that promotion was still achievable BUT LJ would not be judged by last season. This season the new players have been brought in and I would expect that promotion would be his target this season.
whether they will pull the trigger if it appears he is not on course to reach his target is only for KS and KLD to know.
 
hertsmackem said:
as far as i can see he is here long term whether promoted or not. If we are not promoted it will be because we narrowly missed out which will make the board think we can go one better next time.
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Maybe but I would suggest the whole idea of our new model and the use of Head Coaches means that we can have stability while the coaches are interchangeable. When we went from Allardyce to Moyes it was boom and bust. By its definition 'the project' is not reliant on the head coach. I think narrowly missing out a second time would not be an argument to go for a third. Regardless of excuses with 10 games to go we were in a great position and blew it - we had our main scorer fit for nearly the full season and it appeared that teams worked us out. Its seems this year they have sussed us out earlier.

It would seem pointless having a DOF/Head Coach system and just keep Head Coach for stability, when the system is the thing that offers stability. Unless, as someone else pointed out, that promotion is not seen as an imperative. That would be a very risky view as the fans have stuck with the club but if they are not perceived to be ambitious it could be a big problem. Especially if the Mags start splashing their blood money.
 
kildaremackem said:
so why did he get a better job ie higher division if he faield in those jobs?
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He got a same level job and then a job where his father is held in high regard in the division above, which is what also bought him the years he managed to keep his job.
Also he talks a good game and can manage to shift focus from his failings
 
andysafc24 said:
Simply the combination of the stadium, fan base and history. A team like Brentford are in the Premier League and they are there on merit same as we are in Division One through poor management and ownership. Doesn’t mean you have to like, agree or accept it. In fact once you accept it, it can become the norm.
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Agree we’re in L1 due to poor management etc, but also due to merit too. We just don’t play good enough football. Simple as that.. Having fans, a big stadium & what we accomplished 90-48 years ago doesn’t entitle us to think of ourselves as a PL team. There are appx 65 teams above us that are better placed to think that of themselves than we are. It sucks balls, but that’s how it is.
 
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