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Put a flat earthier into space

I can't say for this one, I only ever see him on flat earth threads. But I know what you are saying. In this case I'm not picking on one individual and this post is not about him in any way.

To me, Brexit was a conspiracy theory. Anti-establishment, so much that was said was untrue and one of the killers is that the arguments fell apart when you drilled down to the details. Counter arguments waved away as "project fear" (where more traditional theories say "brainwashing" or "schooled"), without giving much justification for why they were waved away and the whole idea stuck. It had all the hall marks of a traditional conspiracy theory and there was a certain set of posters on the politics forum that were very active in the arguments.

Then Covid happened. Naturally there was a lot of discussion and it moved to it's own forum. People were concerned about it, people were concerned about those who didn't follow health guidelines and then arguments started. "It's not real", "over the top", "great reset", "government want to control", "will never give up their powers", "gradual degrading of our freedoms", etc. But most of the names I knew saying this were the same names from the politics forum.

Is it that when you believe one conspiracy theory you seem to be more likely to believe them all?

It seems so unlikely that someone has done loads of research in one area and uncovered the truth themselves in one area, only to have the time and mental capacity to do that in so many other areas too.
Exactly. They believe all of them at once as they've been brainwashed to the single mindset that the establishment/experts, whatever the term, are all corrupt and are liars.

They thing cling to conspiracy authority and logic going forward.

There seems to be a total disregard for individuals coming from these sectors and just lumping everyone into a group and mass categorizing, i.e. labelling people remoaners in the politics forum or Newcastle Fan using 'schooled' constantly. The irony is that it seems he hasn't had the best education and now he's schooled on all things conspiracy.
 

The chamber is still in low pressure.
The can exploding is still compressing into it and against the wall of the container.
There is little room between the open can and the wall. This is simply an immediate compression.
A bad attempt at proving rockets supposedly work in a space vacuum.

It's not. I haven't done a sketch, yet.
Be patient until I do.
Nothing's going to spoil and nothing will change regardless of when I show a sketch.
Not if you watch it properly but never mind, facts from people do often get in the way of your lack of knowledge on many things.
Still haven't explained the pendulum changes of direction in any detail either, just atmospheric pressure blah blah blah.
 
If you want to believe the old white haired woman with the pointy nose peeping from behind her curtain can fly on a broomstick because people told you, then there's nothing wrong in going with that is enough people have mentioned it as being a truth.
It keeps up the suspense, just like a haunted house does and so on.

But there comes a time when you feel the need to question them, just like Santa and god and the tooth fairy...etc....etc.
With this space stuff, that's what I believe we're being asked to do and people simply go with it, which is fair enough. I simply don't.

Can you tell me how they work?

It's all you need.
A questioning mind to speculate.
old white haired women?

wtf you on about
 
old white haired women?

wtf you on about
Apparently because witches who fly on broomsticks aren't real it proves the earth is flat (flat until he shows otherwise with his sketch)

Oh and someone made Star Wars so space doesn't exist either, that's how his mind works unfortunately
 
Apparently because witches who fly on broomsticks aren't real it proves the earth is flat (flat until he shows otherwise with his sketch)

Oh and someone made Star Wars so space doesn't exist either, that's how his mind works unfortunately
It's about the mindset of following set narratives based on mass acceptance of a belief in them, without proof.
 
As for me directly proving anything to you. Nahhhh. Not a chance. That can only come from you to look at it all and decide, which you already have, which is fine.

If I'm to be coaxed into a belief of space rockets and such then I require proof, none of which can be provided.
I think these two lines together sums on the thread and conspiracy theorists in general.

First one: I have my own belief based on nothing, no proof so I'm not going to give any or engage on any details of my idea of the world.

Second one: I demand rigorous proof of every aspect of the accepted norm and there is none which I think is valid because I dismiss all proof as faked or just wrong, because it goes against my ideas for point one.

For the rest of us on this thread the reason we have all failed is because we have discussed things on a logical and scientific level. But this is not a logical or scientific thing. Essentially it is an emotional almost religious feeling and you can't fight that. Parallels between conspiracy theorists and brexit followers was drawn earlier. A lot of people for Brexit openly admitted that was an emotional thing. Fear we didn't have control, fear of foreign people taking our jobs, homes and lives, fear that we had lost control and the feeling that being independent would give that back. The actual facts didn't back that up, so were waved away.

Responses to this and a lot of other conspiracy theories seem to follow a similar vein. Lack of control, that feeling of just being another cog in the machine, the lack of significance. But invent a special new world of their own where you know the truth and all of a sudden they have control and they have significance. It is not logical but I can kind of understand it.
There seems to be a total disregard for individuals coming from these sectors and just lumping everyone into a group and mass categorizing, i.e. labelling people remoaners in the politics forum or Newcastle Fan using 'schooled' constantly. The irony is that it seems he hasn't had the best education and now he's schooled on all things conspiracy.
That last line especially. I just think of this 8 inch per mile squared rule. Do your own research, did you come up with the maths yourself etc. All thrown at us, but actually when you prove it from first principals, it doesn't trump this rule from Flat Earth training, which is wrong and they all seem to have been 'schooled' in.
 
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Can you give me some examples?

Let's approach this first without examining scientific examples at all, because for contrarians like you it's not actually about the science. Let's examine what disbelieving the science functionally requires.

It requires believing not just one branch of science, astronomy, is a vast conspiracy. No, it requires believing that astronomy, physics, every branch of engineering, biology, oceanography, geology, geography, meteorology, all of mathematics beyond grade school, are vast conspiracies involving millions of scientists across time, politics, and just about every conceivable human divide. That's a place you can go, but basic human behavioral incentives show why it's a silly one: scientists and academicians get nowhere in their careers if all they do is confirm existing theories. The names on the Nobels, the ones with in the textbooks, and even the ones who advance in modest academia are those who make discoveries or prove things contrary to existing dogmas.

Just think of the names any dribbler knows: Darwin, Galileo, Newton, Kepler, Mendel, Watson and Crick. These are people who changed existing knowledge in massive ways. These are the scientists that every scientist wants to be. In other words, every single scientist on earth has a powerful incentive to counter existing beliefs. And yet science over the past five centuries has unearthed just more and more interlocking ways in which the only set of facts that allows any branch of science to make sense in light of all others is based on the earth being round and revolving around the sun.

Think of all the powerful contrarian incentives: wouldn't it have been a powerful victory for the USSR to show that the US, UK, and the rest of the twentieth-century capitalist establishment was just dead wrong in terms of a major tenet of its science?

Well, turns out they tried. But the ones they challenged were Darwinian evolution and Mendelian genetics, not earth science. And the result was a massive decline in crop yields and mass famine. Turns out that incredulous contrarianism has its costs.

Now, just to return to an example that's been discussed to death: ships over the horizon. There is always a horizon, and it has a maximum bound that happens to conform exactly to what one would predict based on a round earth of the accepted diameter. That's something one can confirm in both directions - going from theory to observation, but also observation to theory. Not so with whatever atmospheric pressure gobbledygook you came out with. It's an unmoored assertion that loosely correlates with some aspects of reality but does not correlate with other major observable facts and requires that human eyesight and oceanic navigation somehow become dismembered from the rest of science and objective reality.
 
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Agree with that late last week someone posted a link to an article about how you can't argue with a conspiracy theorist. Following those links so many if the quotes they used have appeared in here.
The one that stuck out was basically I can prove what my model is but I know the world isn't a globe
 
Let's approach this first without examining scientific examples at all, because for contrarians like you it's not actually about the science. Let's examine what disbelieving the science functionally requires.

It requires believing not just one branch of science, astronomy, is a vast conspiracy. No, it requires believing that astronomy, physics, every branch of engineering, biology, oceanography, geology, geography, meteorology, all of mathematics beyond grade school, are vast conspiracies involving millions of scientists across time, politics, and just about every conceivable human divide. That's a place you can go, but basic human behavioral incentives show why it's a silly one: scientists and academicians get nowhere in their careers if all they do is confirm existing theories. The names on the Nobels, the ones with in the textbooks, and even the ones who advance in modest academia are those who make discoveries or prove things contrary to existing dogmas.

Just think of the names any dribbler knows: Darwin, Galileo, Newton, Kepler, Mendel, Watson and Crick. These are people who changed existing knowledge in massive ways. These are the scientists that every scientist wants to be. In other words, every single scientist on earth has a powerful incentive to counter existing beliefs. And yet science over the past five centuries has unearthed just more and more interlocking ways in which the only set of facts that allows any branch of science to make sense in light of all others is based on the earth being round and revolving around the sun.

Think of all the powerful contrarian incentives: wouldn't it have been a powerful victory for the USSR to show that the US, UK, and the rest of the twentieth-century capitalist establishment was just dead wrong in terms of a major tenet of its science?

Well, turns out they tried. But the ones they challenged were Darwinian evolution and Mendelian genetics, not earth science. And the result was a massive decline in crop yields and mass famine. Turns out that incredulous contrarianism has its costs.

Now, just to return to an example that's been discussed to death: ships over the horizon. There is always a horizon, and it has a maximum bound that happens to conform exactly to what one would predict based on a round earth of the accepted diameter. That's something one can confirm in both directions - going from theory to observation, but also observation to theory. Not so with whatever atmospheric pressure gobbledygook you came out with. It's an unmoored assertion that loosely correlates with some aspects of reality but does not correlate with other major observable facts and requires that human eyesight and oceanic navigation somehow become dismembered from the rest of science and objective reality.
but compartmentalism.

In all seriousness know what you've typed up there is what any rational person thinks, regardless of scientific background or not. There's too many variables and competing parties than the whole things a fake.

It's definitely possible that Newcastle Fan is brainwashed.
 
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but compartmentalism.

In all seriousness know what you've typed up there is what any rational person thinks, regardless of scientific background or not. There's too many variables and competing parties than the whole things a fake.

It's definitely possible that Newcastle Fan is brainwashed.
I wouldn't say he is brainwashed, more that he is so terrified of real science and our continuing existence being dependent upon everything we understand being 'right', that he can't emotionally or intellectually cope with it.
 
but compartmentalism.

In all seriousness know what you've typed up there is what any rational person thinks, regardless of scientific background or not. There's too many variables and competing parties than the whole things a fake.

It's definitely possible that Newcastle Fan is brainwashed.

"I used to think like you" is something that he often says. But then claims to have arrived at the conclusion himself, but it seems all his core "musings" are from elsewhere.
My guess is that the tipping point between "thinking like you" and then realising it was all a lie was going down a YouTube rabbit hole about 10 years ago and falling for it. Some people are more susceptible to that stuff. Now everything is a lie. Everything must be denied. even right angles. Because accept one thing, you have to accept another and another and then so it goes that the actual truth turns out to be unavoidable.
 
"I used to think like you" is something that he often says. But then claims to have arrived at the conclusion himself, but it seems all his core "musings" are from elsewhere.
My guess is that the tipping point between "thinking like you" and then realising it was all a lie was going down a YouTube rabbit hole about 10 years ago and falling for it. Some people are more susceptible to that stuff. Now everything is a lie. Everything must be denied. even right angles. Because accept one thing, you have to accept another and another and then so it goes that the actual truth turns out to be unavoidable.
Yeah, I think the geometry of a circle thing was the point it became clear he can't accept even the most basic concepts because he knows/fears it will bring his house or cards down
 
Of a contrarian cretin I meant.
Who would that be?
So many people have put up proof which you just dismiss and yet don't offer 1 piece of proof to back up your wild musings.
Nobody has put up any proof for a spinning globe in a space vacuum.
I put up one piece piece of logical and irrefutable proof with water level, from my side but I absolutely understand why people would reject it. The official narrative ensures that for many.
You can't even produce a 30 second sketch as you know it won't work on your lemon squeezer map.
Correct, I can't. It would take more than 30 seconds.
 
Who would that be?

Nobody has put up any proof for a spinning globe in a space vacuum.
I put up one piece piece of logical and irrefutable proof with water level, from my side but I absolutely understand why people would reject it. The official narrative ensures that for many.

Correct, I can't. It would take more than 30 seconds.
It's took you days, basically because nothing you draw will work with what you have said and shown with your lemon squeezer and the seas.
So you're stuck.
And people have put many proofs up to do with key elements of why it's a globe yet you have none to prove your inaccessible crystal generator, or reflections, or atmospheric pressure pendulum movements.
You literally have zero evidence for any of your musings 😂😂
 
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