Put a flat earthier into space

[Harry Angstrom]

I just have. What exactly are you after?

You really haven't.

A sun dial in Stockholm will have shadows at a different angle and with different lengths to a sundial in Alexandria and those angles and lengths will be different every day but consistent each year,

 

[DaveH]

Nope. The crystals do not move.


Nope.
You have a super carbon that is arcing within covered by crystals above. The super carbon is what is moving up and down and around, within.


Sort of.


There's nothing rock hard about it. It's merely a hydrogen/helium ice skin.
Compared to us down here it is extremely less dense than any ice we see and feel.
The sun does not warp any crystal. It creates a lower pressure as it passes each area of dome which in turn allows the dome to warp.


Not perfect but close to it as far as our vision is concerned. It would be fairly smooth as the sun passes over it but would leave small icicles as it is left to refreeze or go near dormant.

The suns waves will not travel that distance. You lose the heat and light as it moves away from you. It's got nothing to do with bending light and more to do with atmospheric density build over distance which blocks out the light to our vision to where people believe it's a global Earth just spinning away from it but clear nonsense when actually thought about/..

Aye. Even as a joke you don't realise that you're telling the truth about a globe.

What do you mean they work on a globe but not on a circle?

Particles in the atmosphere. Dust and what not.

Good for you. At least you won't get frustrated.

I don't know I've never been close to it.

Ah ok, that makes perfect sense now. The light bends (technically refracts) as it goes through different pressures and only looks like it is going straight down where it would have previously gone at an angle. Meanwhile light and dark/day and night happen because light just can't travel far enough and gives up, giving your darkness. I'm still not sure why that seems to look like the sun is dipping below the horizon but I'm sure there is a simple logical explanation for that.

I think that is why it is important to know the height of the dome. We can measure distances on the earth and are happy with them. We know the distance between places that are light and places that are dark. Now if light has a finite distance where it just can't be arsed any more and stops, giving complete blackness, then it starts to point to how high it might be. I.e. it can't be much higher than the distance from a dark place to a light place because the light would never reach us.

In fact if you assume the earth is not a globe and you can measure atmospheric density, we can say that light only travels a few miles on the surface before it stops. It gives us a distance light can travel linked to atmospheric density. Even when weather changes that density, it doesn't make distant objects more visible so even pretty large changes don't affect light that much before it gives up. Eye level distance to the horizon over water is usually given as just over 3 miles. Lets account for the lower density air further up and treble that, it puts 9 miles as a reasonable height for the dome (at it's highest). That is 47,520 feet, well within range of a commercial aircraft. We could actually fire something into a dome to see what would happen.

 

[What A Waster]

Ah ok, that makes perfect sense now. The light bends (technically refracts) as it goes through different pressures and only looks like it is going straight down where it would have previously gone at an angle. Meanwhile light and dark/day and night happen because light just can't travel far enough and gives up, giving your darkness. I'm still not sure why that seems to look like the sun is dipping below the horizon but I'm sure there is a simple logical explanation for that.

I think that is why it is important to know the height of the dome. We can measure distances on the earth and are happy with them. We know the distance between places that are light and places that are dark. Now if light has a finite distance where it just can't be arsed any more and stops, giving complete blackness, then it starts to point to how high it might be. I.e. it can't be much higher than the distance from a dark place to a light place because the light would never reach us.

In fact if you assume the earth is not a globe and you can measure atmospheric density, we can say that light only travels a few miles on the surface before it stops. It gives us a distance light can travel linked to atmospheric density. Even when weather changes that density, it doesn't make distant objects more visible so even pretty large changes don't affect light that much before it gives up. Eye level distance to the horizon over water is usually given as just over 3 miles. Lets account for the lower density air further up and treble that, it puts 9 miles as a reasonable height for the dome (at it's highest). That is 47,520 feet, well within range of a commercial aircraft. We could actually fire something into a dome to see what would happen.

There is no horizon, remember

 

[ned_werby]

No.
All we can see is the ice dome and what is mirrored from it.
The reason the dome is mirroring is because lightwaves stop. The spectrum of colours are all absorbed beyond it.

So you believe we live in cell under a dome, that there are multiple such cells but that we can't see them because of the properties of our dome and that we're separated from them by some sort of fluid. And yet you don't believe in 'science'?

 

[What A Waster]

What do you mean they work on a globe but not on a circle?

Particles in the atmosphere. Dust and what not.

Because on a globe Ushuaia is 55° south and gets a long day the same as Hobart at 55° south, only Hobart gets the light first as the earth rotates.

On flat discworld, Hobart could well get the light first, but for Ushuaia to get it 11 hours later, and for them to both be in daylight the spread of the light is too far. There's no way it can have tha spread yet only focus on the places out towards the circumference. Think of a torch beam, hold it near the ground next to one wall of your sitting room. To light up the other side simultaneous you'd have to raise the torch and move it laterally towards the centre of the room. The light goes off in all directions.


Now consider us in the northern hemisphere in Europe at the 21st December, we are the same time zone as south africa. Cape Town is having a long summer day while we have a short winter day. For us it's getting dark by 4pm, but in Ushuaia it's still midday. Ushuaia has 10 hours of daylight left, Cape Town has 4, and its dark in Hobart. So the light source has to go dark for us at 55°n, but still illuminate 33°s for 4 hours. Meanwhile it's still mid day in north America, we are dark but south africa still light.
So this light seems to be concentrated on the southern hemisphere all the time, but change shape as well, so that SA gets light while we are dark, the USA gets light while we are dark but SA is still light, Ushuaia is light til 10pm local time but north america is now dark.
So the light in north expands and contracts, but doesn't waiver at the south.

 

[Nukehasslefan]

You really haven't.

A sun dial in Stockholm will have shadows at a different angle and with different lengths to a sundial in Alexandria and those angles and lengths will be different every day but consistent each year,

So, what is the issue?

Ah ok, that makes perfect sense now. The light bends (technically refracts) as it goes through different pressures and only looks like it is going straight down where it would have previously gone at an angle. Meanwhile light and dark/day and night happen because light just can't travel far enough and gives up, giving your darkness. I'm still not sure why that seems to look like the sun is dipping below the horizon but I'm sure there is a simple logical explanation for that.

There is a logical explanation. It's called atmospheric density. The sun reflection is moving away from your position as it moves around. The more it moves away the less of the light from it you can see.
This is why you can see the remnant of the light when it disappears from your view as a glow farther out. A dimmer and dimmer glow until nothing as the sun keeps moving farther away.

Your globe provides no rational explanation for this.

You see, if you were on a spinning globe moving away from the sun you would be falling backover and the sun would disappear and ot light after disappearance.

I think that is why it is important to know the height of the dome.

It's impossible to know. You can't measure it without a point of reference.

We can measure distances on the earth and are happy with them.

Distances on Earth, fine. You still have to have a reference point or it's just wild guessing.

We know the distance between places that are light and places that are dark. Now if light has a finite distance where it just can't be arsed any more and stops, giving complete blackness, then it starts to point to how high it might be. I.e. it can't be much higher than the distance from a dark place to a light place because the light would never reach us.

Atmospheric density is massively different at sea level than it is higher up.

In fact if you assume the earth is not a globe and you can measure atmospheric density, we can say that light only travels a few miles on the surface before it stops.

No, not a few miles. Many many miles back to our eyes.

It gives us a distance light can travel linked to atmospheric density.

And that's fine for where we're existing but it shows nothing from a farther perspective where light cannot travel.

Even when weather changes that density, it doesn't make distant objects more visible so even pretty large changes don't affect light that much before it gives up.

Actually different weather can remarkable change the magnification of objects due to atmospheric density changes..

Eye level distance to the horizon over water is usually given as just over 3 miles.
Lets account for the lower density air further up and treble that, it puts 9 miles as a reasonable height for the dome (at it's highest). That is 47,520 feet, well within range of a commercial aircraft. We could actually fire something into a dome to see what would happen.

Just wild guessing based on nothing.

 

[Harry Angstrom]

So, what is the issue?

How does this happen?

 

[Nukehasslefan]

So you believe we live in cell under a dome, that there are multiple such cells but that we can't see them because of the properties of our dome and that we're separated from them by some sort of fluid. And yet you don't believe in 'science'?

Who said I don't believe in science?
Science is the Earth and all within, for us. This is ur science, so obviously I believe in it.
The issue is in what is the truth about it and how it's found to be provable. This is where real scientists come in.

Then there are theoretical scientists who look for truth.

And then there's pseudo-scientists and theoretical physicists doing, what?

Telling stories that cannot be proven and making out the equations and gobbledygook fit that storyline.
It's all about who believe in what that cannot be proven.

When they're offered as factual it then requires proof.

 

[DaveH]

Because on a globe Ushuaia is 55° south and gets a long day the same as Hobart at 55° south, only Hobart gets the light first as the earth rotates.

On flat discworld, Hobart could well get the light first, but for Ushuaia to get it 11 hours later, and for them to both be in daylight the spread of the light is too far. There's no way it can have tha spread yet only focus on the places out towards the circumference. Think of a torch beam, hold it near the ground next to one wall of your sitting room. To light up the other side simultaneous you'd have to raise the torch and move it laterally towards the centre of the room. The light goes off in all directions.


Now consider us in the northern hemisphere in Europe at the 21st December, we are the same time zone as south africa. Cape Town is having a long summer day while we have a short winter day. For us it's getting dark by 4pm, but in Ushuaia it's still midday. Ushuaia has 10 hours of daylight left, Cape Town has 4, and its dark in Hobart. So the light source has to go dark for us at 55°n, but still illuminate 33°s for 4 hours. Meanwhile it's still mid day in north America, we are dark but south africa still light.
So this light seems to be concentrated on the southern hemisphere all the time, but change shape as well, so that SA gets light while we are dark, the USA gets light while we are dark but SA is still light, Ushuaia is light til 10pm local time but north america is now dark.
So the light in north expands and contracts, but doesn't waiver at the south.

The answers you seek can be found in this video, from about 6 minutes onwards:

You must be logged on to see media items

It was a few years ago I saw these and while looking for the guide on the magic shape shifting lampshade, part 2 from about 8 minutes onwards is surprisingly similar to how the conversations have gone over the last few weeks.

An interesting point in the video that I hadn't thought of is "Why should the behaviour of atmospheric gas change with lattitude, how does the gas know?". And while typing this, that old chestnut explanation of "atmospheric density" crops up again. A hand wave, two words and suddenly everything is explained, despite the fact that atmospheric density is known to change with weather but observed effects remain constant.

Interesting to see that he picked the sun and observed angles not working while I picked Polaris, but with the same results.

Now if you have a ice dome which warps, melts and refreezes then that could act as your magic morphing lampshade to some extent, but then angles still don't match what they would on a flat earth.

It is something I said ages ago. Earth is a globe....ah but what about this....good point, earth is a spinning globe.....ah but what about this.....good point, earth is a spinning globe tilted at 23 degrees.....but what about the moon.....that is also a globe in orbit around the earth, taking about a month per orbit.....ah but what about, err no actually in that model it covers star rotation, star and sun height at latitude, phases of the moon, seasons and when followed through from a model, exactly match observations. Looks like we have this cracked in time for tea.

The earth is flat and may or may not be under a dome.....ah but what about this.....lies, wibble, refraction.....ah but what about this.....erm, more refraction, atmospheric density.....ah but what about this, you are still struggling to explain the most basic thing which is night and day.......wibble wibble, angry denial, go on the attack, look squirrel......

No model of a flat/dome earth has ever been presented that actually works and they have not even managed to produce a working map that matches measured distances on the earth. Amazing how they put so much faith into it.

 

[0verlord44]

I’m sorry but how arrogant do you need to be to think your ‘opinion’ carries more weight than established scientific fact? News flash pal, your ‘opinion’ is wrong.

oh and by the way, if this was somebody discussing Covid-19, and spread the same level of drivel, this thread would be closed down

 

[Northern Boarders]

I’m sorry but how arrogant do you need to be to think your ‘opinion’ carries more weight than established scientific fact? News flash pal, your ‘opinion’ is wrong.

oh and by the way, if this was somebody discussing Covid-19, and spread the same level of drivel, this thread would be closed down

It's brilliant

One of my favorite parts early in the thread was when he said prominent scientists such as Einstein are mere story tellers.. while he who has no proof of anything (only musings) is above such stories as he learned to question accepted science.

 

[What A Waster]

There is a logical explanation. It's called atmospheric density. The sun reflection is moving away from your position as it moves around. The more it moves away the less of the light from it you can see.
This is why you can see the remnant of the light when it disappears from your view as a glow farther out. A dimmer and dimmer glow until nothing as the sun keeps moving farther away.














Just wild guessing based on nothing.

1st bit "there's a logical explanation". Followed by something that's anything but.

2nd bit, irony off the scale.

 

[Malloy]

Has it reached its target yet? Please can we send nukehassle fan and not bring him back.

 

[Nukehasslefan]

Because on a globe Ushuaia is 55° south and gets a long day the same as Hobart at 55° south, only Hobart gets the light first as the earth rotates.

Or as the sun reflection moves over and around.

On flat discworld, Hobart could well get the light first, but for Ushuaia to get it 11 hours later, and for them to both be in daylight the spread of the light is too far.

How far is too far?

There's no way it can have tha spread yet only focus on the places out towards the circumference. Think of a torch beam, hold it near the ground next to one wall of your sitting room. To light up the other side simultaneous you'd have to raise the torch and move it laterally towards the centre of the room. The light goes off in all directions.

So what's the issue?

Now consider us in the northern hemisphere in Europe at the 21st December, we are the same time zone as south africa. Cape Town is having a long summer day while we have a short winter day. For us it's getting dark by 4pm, but in Ushuaia it's still midday. Ushuaia has 10 hours of daylight left, Cape Town has 4, and its dark in Hobart. So the light source has to go dark for us at 55°n, but still illuminate 33°s for 4 hours. Meanwhile it's still mid day in north America, we are dark but south africa still light.
So this light seems to be concentrated on the southern hemisphere all the time, but change shape as well, so that SA gets light while we are dark, the USA gets light while we are dark but SA is still light, Ushuaia is light til 10pm local time but north america is now dark.
So the light in north expands and contracts, but doesn't waiver at the south.

So what's the issue?

The answers you seek can be found in this video, from about 6 minutes onwards:

You must be logged on to see media items

It was a few years ago I saw these and while looking for the guide on the magic shape shifting lampshade, part 2 from about 8 minutes onwards is surprisingly similar to how the conversations have gone over the last few weeks.

An interesting point in the video that I hadn't thought of is "Why should the behaviour of atmospheric gas change with lattitude, how does the gas know?". And while typing this, that old chestnut explanation of "atmospheric density" crops up again. A hand wave, two words and suddenly everything is explained, despite the fact that atmospheric density is known to change with weather but observed effects remain constant.

Interesting to see that he picked the sun and observed angles not working while I picked Polaris, but with the same results.

Now if you have a ice dome which warps, melts and refreezes then that could act as your magic morphing lampshade to some extent, but then angles still don't match what they would on a flat earth.

It is something I said ages ago. Earth is a globe....ah but what about this....good point, earth is a spinning globe.....ah but what about this.....good point, earth is a spinning globe tilted at 23 degrees.....but what about the moon.....that is also a globe in orbit around the earth, taking about a month per orbit.....ah but what about, err no actually in that model it covers star rotation, star and sun height at latitude, phases of the moon, seasons and when followed through from a model, exactly match observations. Looks like we have this cracked in time for tea.

The earth is flat and may or may not be under a dome.....ah but what about this.....lies, wibble, refraction.....ah but what about this.....erm, more refraction, atmospheric density.....ah but what about this, you are still struggling to explain the most basic thing which is night and day.......wibble wibble, angry denial, go on the attack, look squirrel......

No model of a flat/dome earth has ever been presented that actually works and they have not even managed to produce a working map that matches measured distances on the earth. Amazing how they put so much faith into it.

I'd say the faith is entirely on the global model.

I’m sorry but how arrogant do you need to be to think your ‘opinion’ carries more weight than established scientific fact? News flash pal, your ‘opinion’ is wrong.

oh and by the way, if this was somebody discussing Covid-19, and spread the same level of drivel, this thread would be closed down

If the thread gets closed down then so be it. I'm debating on it but I have no issues with it being closed down if it bothers people so much.

It's brilliant

One of my favorite parts early in the thread was when he said prominent scientists such as Einstein are mere story tellers.. while he who has no proof of anything (only musings) is above such stories as he learned to question accepted science.

Can you prove their stories are truth's?

 

[What A Waster]

Or as the sun reflection moves over and around.



How far is too far?

So what's the issue?



So what's the issue?

I'd say the faith is entirely on the global model.

If the thread gets closed down then so be it. I'm debating on it but I have no issues with it being closed down if it bothers people so much.

Can you prove their stories are truth's?

Just pointing out where you're wrong.

 

[Nukehasslefan]

Just pointing out where you're wrong.

Wrong on what exactly?

 

[Nobby]

Wrong on what exactly?

All of it

 

[DaveH]

I’m sorry but how arrogant do you need to be to think your ‘opinion’ carries more weight than established scientific fact? News flash pal, your ‘opinion’ is wrong.

oh and by the way, if this was somebody discussing Covid-19, and spread the same level of drivel, this thread would be closed down

The difference is that covid misinformation is dangerous, earth shape disinformation lets us laugh at the paranoid delusional.

 

[What A Waster]

Wrong on what exactly?

You should've paid attention for the last 100 pages

 

[Nukehasslefan]

All of it

You're welcome to say that but proving it is another matter.

The difference is that covid misinformation is dangerous, earth shape disinformation lets us laugh at the paranoid delusional.

I'm the same with the spinning globe. I laugh at it now but at one time I actually believed it.

You should've paid attention for the last 100 pages

Aye, maybe I've missed something.