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Modern retires from tests

chopsfc007 said:
His record isn't actually very good look at it
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A quick glance at the list, and he’s ~10th in most test wickets for a finger spinner

He takes wickets 6 worse than Lyon and 4 worse that Vettori of non Asian spinners. And 8 worse than Swann. He averages 3 wickets a test

is he an all time great? Course not, no one would ever suggest that. He feels unfulfilled potential potential with the bat particularly. But his record is pretty decent
 

chunkylover53 said:
A quick glance at the list, and he’s ~10th in most test wickets for a finger spinner

He takes wickets 6 worse than Lyon and 4 worse that Vettori of non Asian spinners. And 8 worse than Swann. He averages 3 wickets a test

is he an all time great? Course not, no one would ever suggest that. He feels unfulfilled potential potential with the bat particularly. But his record is pretty decent
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Batting average below 30 isn't good or bowling 36 however you want to dress it up
 
chopsfc007 said:
Batting average below 30 isn't good or bowling 36 however you want to dress it up
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He’s an all rounder, he does a bit of both. That’s what they do.

Vettori was a very good cricketer for example, a very good one, and his stats aren’t that much better

Lyon is one of the better off spinners of all time and he averages 32 with the ball. Off spinners, well finger spinners, tend to not take wickets at 22
 
chopsfc007 said:
In 65 games average under 30 with bat over 35 with the ball
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He was expensive, could rarely land 6 balls in the same spot and couldn’t really operate as a defensive spinner but when his confidence was up he bowled some excellent spells.

He wasn’t Swann but I enjoyed watching him play as did many others.
 
chunkylover53 said:
He’s an all rounder, he does a bit of both. That’s what they do.

Vettori was a very good cricketer for example, a very good one, and his stats aren’t that much better

Lyon is one of the better off spinners of all time and he averages 32 with the ball. Off spinners, well finger spinners, tend to not take wickets at 22
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Id expect low thirties mind
 
chopsfc007 said:
Batting average less than 30 class bowling 36 class
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aye that’s pretty good mate

your lack of cricket knowledge shining through here like
chunkylover53 said:
A quick glance at the list, and he’s ~10th in most test wickets for a finger spinner

He takes wickets 6 worse than Lyon and 4 worse that Vettori of non Asian spinners. And 8 worse than Swann. He averages 3 wickets a test

is he an all time great? Course not, no one would ever suggest that. He feels unfulfilled potential potential with the bat particularly. But his record is pretty decent
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i think he makes a fair point in the interview, look how is career started with the bat, very well at 6, however it coincided with stokes who was pushed back up to 6

it meant Ali either had to bat in top 5 or down at 8

he mostly did 8 and then filled in whenever there was a problem up the order

I reckon he could have averaged mid 30s plus without 6, then his record would be outstanding

it’s hard to average that much when you play so much at 8 like
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Another mint stat
 
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The Rat said:
aye that’s pretty good mate

your lack of cricket knowledge shining through here like


i think he makes a fair point in the interview, look how is career started with the bat, very well at 6, however it coincided with stokes who was pushed back up to 6

it meant Ali either had to bat in top 5 or down at 8

he mostly did 8 and then filled in whenever there was a problem up the order

I reckon he could have averaged mid 30s plus without 6, then his record would be outstanding

it’s hard to average that much when you play so much at 8 like
You must be logged on to see media items

Another mint stat
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I agree. He remains somewhat unfulfilled for me. Partly because he was moved round, partly cos he got out in some shit ways and partly because he was inconsistent with the ball

very handy cricketer in all formats, and comes across as a great bloke
 
chunkylover53 said:
I agree. He remains somewhat unfulfilled for me. Partly because he was moved round, partly cos he got out in some shit ways and partly because he was inconsistent with the ball

very handy cricketer in all formats, and comes across as a great bloke
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aye probs right

another point that’s key is that sport isn’t just about stats is it, I don’t wanna sound too Alan partridge here but It’s about memories and who you enjoy watching

he’s been one of my most favourite players to watch and he’s won a hell of a lot of games for England

He was strange as he was a really good bowler in England but struggled a bit even in Asia

he totally out bowled Ashwin in the series before this one at home
 
Great to watch, particularly with bat, when in full flow. Was never that convinced with the ball but he went through a patch of being very effective not too long before his form fell off a cliff.

It’s the right time for both parties for him to move on from the test side. He’d become far too inconsistent which is a shame as I enjoyed watching him even before he was picked by England.
 
The Breen Machine said:
Great to watch, particularly with bat, when in full flow. Was never that convinced with the ball but he went through a patch of being very effective not too long before his form fell off a cliff.

It’s the right time for both parties for him to move on from the test side. He’d become far too inconsistent which is a shame as I enjoyed watching him even before he was picked by England.
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it didn’t fall off a cliff that’s the point he makes

he was the leading wicket taker in the world over 12 months and they dropped him after 1 poor ashes test after the World Cup

it was such ooor management

he was bowling the best he ever had

they wasted 2 years of his career

well Ed smith was the main reason
 
The Rat said:
it didn’t fall off a cliff that’s the point he makes

he was the leading wicket taker in the world over 12 months and they dropped him after 1 poor ashes test after the World Cup

it was such ooor management

he was bowling the best he ever had

they wasted 2 years of his career

well Ed smith was the main reason
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I didn’t mind him being dropped but it was really harsh to take his red ball contract off him. They ended up having Bess as first choice the following year who isn’t half as good as Ali
 
The Rat said:
it didn’t fall off a cliff that’s the point he makes

he was the leading wicket taker in the world over 12 months and they dropped him after 1 poor ashes test after the World Cup

it was such ooor management

he was bowling the best he ever had

they wasted 2 years of his career

well Ed smith was the main reason
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He’d not been in great form with bat or ball during that World Cup either but it was a little harsh to bin him after one test in hindsight. I think there was an element of panic after he’d had a bad series over there in 2017/18.
 
Enjoy your retirement Mo.

Part of the engine room 6/7/8 of Stokes/Bairstow/Ali which was formidable for us for a good spell and won us a load of games, the fact we broke it up was one of the dumbest things England have ever done. Two of them have never been the same since.
 
Steak Pie said:
Enjoy your retirement Mo.

Part of the engine room 6/7/8 of Stokes/Bairstow/Ali which was formidable for us for a good spell and won us a load of games, the fact we broke it up was one of the dumbest things England have ever done. Two of them have never been the same since.
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great post totally agree

I post about this far too much but we really did cock that up

Ed smith was a total disaster wasn’t he
 
The Rat said:
great post totally agree

I post about this far too much but we really did cock that up

Ed smith was a total disaster wasn’t he
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Sure was, although he's not alone. It's something we're obsessed with, I've never understood it. Have something great...? Excellent, let's change it round!
 
chopsfc007 said:
Batting average below 30 isn't good or bowling 36 however you want to dress it up
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He had a bit of a golden arm and he won us matches. He got the tap at times which makes his bowling average a bit higher but his numbers are decent for an all rounder.

He’s been messed about, being discussed as being second choice spinner then first choice, then back again, and it never felt like he was fully backed which impacted his performances. The way the summer has panned out kind of sums his England career and the ECBs management of him.

They’re doing the same to Leach too who has been monumentally shafted by the set up.
 
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