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NUFC/Sportwashing

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Sabre Mag said:
It will actually be hours of tedious legal talk, which most people won't understand, and with absolutely no ground breaking or new information whatsoever.

Cheers for that makes interesting reading. I think it's always a gamble and that could pay off and it might not and there are huge extremes on either side of that. However, seeing teams that a decade ago or less by 2 leagues (and honestly it could be you over he next few years) is very difficult to see and understand. And you could say that Leicester have taken a risk, but you could also say they've been ran brilliantly by making calculated choices that have paid off.
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leicester have won the league and the FA Cup during this period so even if their next roll of the dice doesn’t come off for them, the average Leicester fan will probably die happier than me
 

Sabre Mag said:
It will actually be hours of tedious legal talk, which most people won't understand, and with absolutely no ground breaking or new information whatsoever.

Cheers for that makes interesting reading. I think it's always a gamble and that could pay off and it might not and there are huge extremes on either side of that. However, seeing teams that a decade ago or less by 2 leagues (and honestly it could be you over he next few years) is very difficult to see and understand. And you could say that Leicester have taken a risk, but you could also say they've been ran brilliantly by making calculated choices that have paid off.
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And there are teams who a decade ago were finishing above Newcastle that are now in league one, so what's your point ?
 
jlaws said:
Leicester story is an incredible one but also fortuitous - Kante, Drinkwater, Mahrez, Maguire, Chilwell - very few clubs can offload talent and still remain at that level. Huge parallels to Newcastle with Vardy top scorer over 5 seasons. In the 12 Prem seasons, before he retired Shearer was top scorer in all bar 2!

Football goes in waves - Sunderland 1890's, Huddersfield 1920's, Arsenal 1930's, Wolves (and Newcastle) 1950's, Leeds 1970's, Liverpool, 70's & 80's, Utd 90's and 00's, City 2010's, Chelsea 00's etc. Very few can remain at that level. In fact Liverpool are probably the closest as from 1962 they have averaged 3.5th with a very small standard deviation. The twitter warriors didn't like me pointing out Newcastle's all time average is 14th (with high standard deviation) and suggested I start in 1992 (8.5 average then) but history dictates that is not the case.
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I agree about the waves like, and to be honest it's why I have never been one to laugh too hard about what happened to yourselves. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy it a bit, because that's a lie , but it was also with a tinge of empathy and a recognition that the pendulum could swing the other way and fortunes reversed very quickly indeed.

I think it's about the enjoyment as a fan isn't it. That's what's been forgotten at Newcastle for me. The match is the worst part of the day.
MackemX said:
Leicester I can agree with in some way as they found some good players in past seasons and somehow won the league. They got £10's of millions extra revenue from Champions League and a bit more with global exposure. They also got £200m selling Mahrez, Chilwell, Kante and Maguire in just 4 transfers alone.

I feel they will revert to type in seasons to come and be in amongst the bottom half. I doubt they will be able to substain the money required to stay up there and challenge for Europa League scraps. Leicester have a £162m NET debt and got less revenue than NUFC yet their average wage is £73k compared to your £52k. A difference of £21k weekly is over £1m more per season per person, if both had similar numbers of personel. Look at the 4 images and the rise in their wages cost as from their 1st season back in the PL in 2015, it's gone from £57m to £157m in 2020 and it's doubled since they won the league.

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Looking at the tweet above and the big wage spending chasing success reminds me of the Mags in the 90's, along with Leeds and Blackburn. Aye they're up there now but long term it's unlikely the money will keep coming in like it has been for them to maintain (well push it to the limits given it's over 100%) that spending level. Also Schmeichel and Vardy (lacking goals even now) won't be around forever and past their prime.

Southampton have only been out the top league 7 seasons since 1977-78 and a total of 11 seasons since 1967-68 so they're were they've been for the last 50 odd years. However for all the time in the top league, they've finished top 10 a total of 13 times since 1968 in these positions and 4 of those since coming back up in 2013 as shown in brackets.

2nd - 1
5th - 1
6th - 2 (1)
7th - 5 (1)
8th - 4 (2)

They're no denying they had a decent spell a for 4 seasons after coming back up (is that due to the extra money) but they keep selling the good good players and they got £110m from Van Dyke/Mane alone. Prior to that they also sold Shaw/Llalana for £60m along with £100m from Lovren, Chambers, Clyne in those 4 seasons. They'll probably cash in on James Ward Prowse if he has a decent season. Even last season sold 2 they should really be keeping in Ings/Vestergaard. They are reverting to type in the last 4 seasons in the lower half.

The thing is, going down to League One for them was also a reset in some way to clear out the higher expenses like we have done. Southampton dropped to League One but then got promoted to the Championship and straight into the big money Premier League. They got the extra money, had 4 good seasons selling players for big money but the last 4 seasons haven't been as good and they lost £76m in 2020 finances and had a higher wage bill than NUFC.

So Leicester and Southampton may have invested more but they've made some good money selling players. Of the 3, I'd put Leicester first with the Mags in 2nd place and Southampton 3rd as they're closer to where you'd expect. The big question is will Leicester continue to prosper or has their 'success' bubble started to deflate? Will they be able to keep paying high wages and invest like they have if they start to drop down the table? I only put Leicester top for now and that's more to do with them being able to find decent players to also possibly sell have clubs ever been able to do this consistently?

This was just out of interest more than anything as I've just google most of the speil I've just spouted. If anything it shows me that there's more to look at than just NET spend or the other limited things most football fans may focus on. Leicester may look pretty on the outside at the moment but long term who knows what could happen if they end up back in the lower high with such high costs.
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Yeah I understand what you're saying, it's a good post mate. It deserves a longer response but not able to for time reasons, but as in my other reply, if going to the match becomes a chore and the worst part of the day, then really it does make it hard to keep caring.
tunstallhill said:
And there are teams who a decade ago were finishing above Newcastle that are now in league one, so what's your point ?
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That most people would not look at Newcastle and say they are as a club striving to be the best we can be for the reasons I have given, re the squad, training ground etc. I think it's possible to be in any league and try to be the best version of the club you can be. I don't believe success in relative terms means pumping in hundreds of millions (I appreciate others would disagree) and that you can have ambitions and aims that aren't merely surviving whilst also being ran sensibly.
 
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tunstallhill said:
And there are teams who a decade ago were finishing above Newcastle that are now in league one, so what's your point ?
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Look at
Leeds
Blackburn
Forest
Derby
Shef Wed
Bolton
Ipswich
And of course ourselves.

Yet only one set of fans go on like absolute knackers.🤷‍♂️
 
Sabre Mag said:
I agree about the waves like, and to be honest it's why I have never been one to laugh too hard about what happened to yourselves. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy it a bit, because that's a lie , but it was also with a tinge of empathy and a recognition that the pendulum could swing the other way and fortunes reversed very quickly indeed.

I think it's about the enjoyment as a fan isn't it. That's what's been forgotten at Newcastle for me. The match is the worst part of the day.

Yeah I understand what you're saying, it's a good post mate. It deserves a longer response but not able to for time reasons, but as in my other reply, if going to the match becomes a chore and the worst part of the day, then really it does make it hard to keep caring.
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I get what you're saying but trying to get some sucess in this day and age costs big money with no guarantee of return. Whereas some owners can simply potter along and make some money without having to chase success but just survive. This is Ashley and to be fair, from a business aspect it's not as bad as some other teams surely?

Like @homeless kid said, imagine winning the league and the FA Cup in your lifetime as it would be class. You probably wouldn't be that bothered about the rest of the shite seasons. Though looking at Leicester I think they'll fizzle out again as surely they can't maintain that spending to stay up there and nobody knows what the consequences could be if it goes tits up and they have a bad season and end up relegated. Could they do another Leeds?

This is probably why times of being in the Championship seem more enjoyable as it's something to look forward to than just another game in the Premier League were the team will probably struggle. Though in our case it wasn't of course as we didn't bounce back and instead dropped another league and even then it's now our 4th season down there. Yet we still pull in around 30,000 which is some feat given the shit we've had for numerous seasons now. Your crowds would certainly plummet if you got relegated twice on the bounce and then spent at least 4 seasons in League One and would you still get 30,000? Though it's unlikely I'd love to find out 🤪
 
MackemX said:
I get what you're saying but trying to get some sucess in this day and age costs big money with no guarantee of return. Whereas some owners can simply potter along and make some money without having to chase success but just survive. This is Ashley and to be fair, from a business aspect it's not as bad as some other teams surely?

Like @homeless kid said, imagine winning the league and the FA Cup in your lifetime as it would be class. You probably wouldn't be that bothered about the rest of the shite seasons. Though looking at Leicester I think they'll fizzle out again as surely they can't maintain that spending to stay up there and nobody knows what the consequences could be if it goes tits up and they have a bad season and end up relegated. Could they do another Leeds?

This is probably why times of being in the Championship seem more enjoyable as it's something to look forward to than just another game in the Premier League were the team will probably struggle. Though in our case it wasn't of course as we didn't bounce back and instead dropped another league and even then it's now our 4th season down there. Yet we still pull in around 30,000 which is some feat given the shit we've had for numerous seasons now. Your crowds would certainly plummet if you got relegated twice on the bounce and then spent at least 4 seasons in League One and would you still get 30,000? Though it's unlikely I'd love to find out 🤪
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The Championship seasons have been the most enjoyable for me in recent times, because ultimately winning games is class, whatever level that is at. I wouldn't ever have a pop at Sunderland fans in terms of crowd numbers and loyalty, it's the one thing neither of us should take the piss out of, there's plenty other stuff haha. Under the current regime, with Bruce in charge I think 30k would be a struggle outside of the PL but would be around that I think.

Leicester with Rogers will be fine, but one bad managerial appointment and a cpl if seasons of struggle could have an impact but they do have saleable assets.

Also of course other clubs have had it worse, some have had it worse than you, but I don't think life works like that, and football fans in nature are a moaning and fickle bunch.

Look at Man City getting under 40k for a Champions League game when they were 3rd division in recent memory.
 
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The trick was missed with the launch of the ESL - fans outside of the "Big 6" and especially fans of NUFC , SAFC, LUFC, EFC, WHU, SWFC etc. should have been saying "off you go".

We need a reset and a collapse of the TV deal so that once again gate money and fan base size matters. The TV pot will be smaller, transfer fees and wages will be smaller (we will be competing with French, Portugese, Dutch and Belgian teams) but the irony is we will likely have the same players as the ESL will hoover up the superstars.
 
jlaws said:
The trick was missed with the launch of the ESL - fans outside of the "Big 6" and especially fans of NUFC , SAFC, LUFC, EFC, WHU, SWFC etc. should have been saying "off you go".

We need a reset and a collapse of the TV deal so that once again gate money and fan base size matters. The TV pot will be smaller, transfer fees and wages will be smaller (we will be competing with French, Portugese, Dutch and Belgian teams) but the irony is we will likely have the same players as the ESL will hoover up the superstars.
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I 100% agree with this. I really wish they had fucked off, and left us with a financially poorer but more level pyramid.
 
Sabre Mag said:
I 100% agree with this. I really wish they had fucked off, and left us with a financially poorer but more level pyramid.
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It would also have brought values down and made fan ownership a possibility. But alas I don't think their is appetite for it other than from owners and armchair fans around the world.
 
Sabre Mag said:
Leicester, Southampton are good examples. League 1 clubs not in the not too distant past, now doing pretty well for themselves. They have better facilities then us and seem to also invest in the squad , and of course Leicester have won things we can only dream of.
Get
Getting the passport dusted off as we speak for next seasons European exploits.....
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Leicester and Southampton both went into administration so started afresh no debt and new ground that helped mind!
 
MackemX said:
Where has the £62.7m in cash come from as it was just £14m in 2019?

I see the NET debt is now just £44.2m down from £97.5m in 2019. I thought Ashley was running them into the ground?

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That's because their creditor for accrued income has increased massively - for some reason they've got a whole load of cash in relating to the following season that they didn't get in 18/19. Possibly the PL releasing tranches of the TV money earlier than usual to help cash flow in the lockdown.
jlaws said:
You need to look at the full set of a/c's rather than this.

The amount 106,912,000 was moved from long term liabilities to short term liabilities.
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Probably in the expectation that Ashley would get his money back on the sale of the club.
 
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Let's not forget the crux of this Lads. Whilst I think the Saudis are gone take this in.

They're going on the way they are to get a murdering torturous regime to own them. One of the most dangerous dictators in the world who kills and mames at a whim. Something that 97% of them voted in favour of.

They shouldn't be anywhere near the opinion of wanting this to happen but the fact they are and they're not f***ing ashamed of themselves speaks volumes for these people and what kind of morons they are.
 
Exile 1968 said:
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Keith's never going to learn is he? If they buy Inter, he'll be saying its to gain experience of running a Club that will be priceless when they buy Newcastle. The f***ing wankspangle.
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That article doesn’t say anything of the sort. How’s he turned that into a thing about the takeover :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
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