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Burnham

Whatever the reasons Burnham has been released for this time he wouldn’t have had a second chance for me.

All professional sports clubs should implement a zero tolerance drugs policy. It should be instant dismissal after confirmed positive tests. No second chances. This should be made very clear from initial academy development and no excuses should be accepted.

This is elite sport and an industry where some very good people and their families work their knackers off and make big sacrifices and still don’t make it for one reason or another. If someone has talent but they don’t want to maximise it because they would rather have a quick high with their marras on a weekend then that’s the life they choose.

People often defend very good salaries on the grounds it’s a short career. Well the trade off is that you keep your nose clean for 15 years while that career is playing out. If you don’t, the privilege should be removed.
 
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brandon said:
I disagree. On both PED’s and recreational drugs. For me there are worse things that are ‘accepted’ as part of our culture. You’ve got to allow people to make mistakes and grow/learn from them.
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Fair enough, I can see that side of the argument to an extent though it’s not one I agree with. What else do you reckon is worse out of interest?
 
Sea to Shining Sea said:
Fair enough, I can see that side of the argument to an extent though it’s not one I agree with. What else do you reckon is worse out of interest?
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Alcohol is far worse to people than cannabis (for example). More deaths and devastation are caused by too much alcohol every year than from cannabis use. Yet the sport is and always has been inextricably linked to drink.
 
I was content for the club to support him before, though he was very fortunate. He only has himself to blame this time though. Wish him well for the future but he's thrown away a wonderful career opportunity.
 
brandon said:
I disagree. On both PED’s and recreational drugs. For me there are worse things that are ‘accepted’ as part of our culture. You’ve got to allow people to make mistakes and grow/learn from them.
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PEDs is cheating and should be an instant ban.

Recreational drugs surely a private matter unless it's done in public?
brandon said:
Alcohol is far worse to people than cannabis (for example). More deaths and devastation are caused by too much alcohol every year than from cannabis use. Yet the sport is and always has been inextricably linked to drink.
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I am a member of a Long Covid support group and several members use medicinal marijuana for migraine relief. I don't think there's a single medicinal benefit from drinking alcohol.
 
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smoker said:
PEDs is cheating and should be an instant ban.

Recreational drugs surely a private matter unless it's done in public?

I am a member of a Long Covid support group and several members use medicinal marijuana for migraine relief. I don't think there's a single medicinal benefit from drinking alcohol.
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Recreational drugs, particularly if it’s class A, is not really a private matter for anyone. It’s a matter of law and buying into that industry is fairly problematic in itself. For a sports person who is routinely tested for drugs it’s definitely not a private matter.

Regular alcohol consumption is a big cultural issue in county cricket and obviously needs changing but ultimately it’s not prohibited either by the governing body or the law of the land. Other drugs are.

Being a pro sportsperson is a very, very privileged position. Surely they can avoid putting shite up their nostrils? If they’re told it’s zero tolerance and registration will be revoked upon testing positive I bet the cases would be virtually nil.
 
Sea to Shining Sea said:
Recreational drugs, particularly if it’s class A, is not really a private matter for anyone. It’s a matter of law and buying into that industry is fairly problematic in itself. For a sports person who is routinely tested for drugs it’s definitely not a private matter.

Regular alcohol consumption is a big cultural issue in county cricket and obviously needs changing but ultimately it’s not prohibited either by the governing body or the law of the land. Other drugs are.

Being a pro sportsperson is a very, very privileged position. Surely they can avoid putting shite up their nostrils? If they’re told it’s zero tolerance and registration will be revoked upon testing positive I bet the cases would be virtually nil.
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In the case of repeat users, especially those who received a previous warning, I suspect there is an addiction issue preventing them seeing things rationally.

Dealers prey on professional sportsmen, musicians etc: young gullible kids with newly found large disposable incomes.

I'd like to think the ECB and PCA have schemes to help players with addiction.

Not making excuses for anyone, just saying it isn't as straight forward as zero tolerance.
 
brandon said:
I disagree. On both PED’s and recreational drugs. For me there are worse things that are ‘accepted’ as part of our culture. You’ve got to allow people to make mistakes and grow/learn from them.
Click to expand...
In other professions a positive drugs test would be gross misconduct and likely result in dismissal.
No second chances for others
 
smoker said:
In the case of repeat users, especially those who received a previous warning, I suspect there is an addiction issue preventing them seeing things rationally.

Dealers prey on professional sportsmen, musicians etc: young gullible kids with newly found large disposable incomes.

I'd like to think the ECB and PCA have schemes to help players with addiction.

Not making excuses for anyone, just saying it isn't as straight forward as zero tolerance.
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There are an awful lot of people who take cocaine repeatedly who aren’t addicted. They take it recreationally because they enjoy it at a weekend or social occasions. When some are caught, it’s very easy to fall back on a ‘needs help’ type response. I don’t particularly buy that in a lot of circumstances.

I don’t see why zero tolerance is particularly a bad thing
 
Sea to Shining Sea said:
There are an awful lot of people who take cocaine repeatedly who aren’t addicted. They take it recreationally because they enjoy it at a weekend or social occasions.
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That's what they say, but it's highly mentally addictive. It's used by a lot of people with mood and self-confidence problems to 'self medicate', but gets them into a spiral of dependency. Zero tolerance doesn't take into account the context of the drug misuse.

Certainly, where you've had several warnings and help, and still misusing you cannot blame anyone but yourself. If my career depended on laying off family bags of Revels for ten years I'd find a way to do so.
 
smoker said:
That's what they say, but it's highly mentally addictive. It's used by a lot of people with mood and self-confidence problems to 'self medicate', but gets them into a spiral of dependency. Zero tolerance doesn't take into account the context of the drug misuse.

Certainly, where you've had several warnings and help, and still misusing you cannot blame anyone but yourself. If my career depended on laying off family bags of Revels for ten years I'd find a way to do so.
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Zero tolerance tells young sports people that if they take the initial risk of taking it in the first place that they’re putting their career at risk. It’s a really simple trade off in my opinion. It really isn’t that difficult to not take drugs
 
smoker said:
PEDs is cheating and should be an instant ban.

Recreational drugs surely a private matter unless it's done in public?

I am a member of a Long Covid support group and several members use medicinal marijuana for migraine relief. I don't think there's a single medicinal benefit from drinking alcohol.
Click to expand...

It’s a debate for a different day, but PED use can often be a grey area. There are things out there which will enhance performance that are allowed and there are things out there which can be ingested innocently and unknowingly which will likely have no benefit but which will return a positive test.
SuperMarcoRowell said:
In other professions a positive drugs test would be gross misconduct and likely result in dismissal.
No second chances for others
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Yeah, my profession being one of them - I don’t take anything, so am not worried about a positive test, but that wasn’t relevant to anything I said in fairness 🤷‍♂️.

My argument would be that the law/guidance/rules are wrong. Either way, we’re probably veering way off topic now so I’m mindful not to fall to far down the rabbit hole :lol:
 
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