Environment crisis

Market Where? said:
China has 4.25 times the population of the US and manufactures about 30% of the worlds goods versus 15% for the US
They stopped taking the waste from Europe which will ultimately force us to fix our own problems.
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I am on about the materials for construction as well as metal ores fossil fuels etc, I'm sure you know that, if they manufacture twice the goods and use 4 times the world's resources surely that's bad or am I missing something?
 


Kevj said:
Point 1:

The shift from an idea age to a full thaw is measured in decades and we don’t have time to evolve. Noted on bees and agree, other species in the eco system might be our downfall rather than our ability to adapt.

Point 2: I’d be interested in how you arrive at this conclusion. They are pressing ahead with renewables, they they also heavily pollute and Will place economic growth above net zero carbon targets. They produce so much plastic tat, the legacy is huge on top of the initial carbon footprint due to manufacturing processes.
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It’s state planned system. They are recognizing some of the problems - and opportunities - and are uniquely placed to develop solutions that work die to economies of scale. See solar as an example.
 
Will e said:
I am on about the materials for construction as well as metal ores fossil fuels etc, I'm sure you know that, if they manufacture twice the goods and use 4 times the world's resources surely that's bad or am I missing something?
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I know it’s wiki but this gives an indication - data is a a few years ago so China will have a bigger footprint now.

en.m.wikipedia.org

List of countries by ecological footprint - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
Essentially there are too many of us and we need to find a way to manage down our numbers - or nature will sort it out!
 
Market Where? said:
It’s state planned system. They are recognizing some of the problems - and opportunities - and are uniquely placed to develop solutions that work die to economies of scale. See solar as an example.
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They might in the future, but as I see it, global economics and the desire to be the world’s strongest economy means (to me) they will investigate and pursue this, but on the basis of economic growth rather than the for the more noble cause.

In addition, you need to look at carbon footprint of specific renewable technologies. Offshore wind is a prime example whereby the energy generated is effectively free once operational, but the embedded energy in the steelwork alone takes a long time to reach net zero.
 
LeicesterMackem said:
Given that billionaires think blasting themselves into space is currently a really good idea, I'm not hopeful of any kind of economic epiphany accosting them any time soon.
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I read a quote earlier this week whereby past rich folk massaged their philanthropic ego by building libraries and other public buildings. The current three are competing in a space race and beating every government to date.
 
Market Where? said:
The bit about natural cycles and there has been higher levels of CO2 in the past annoy the shit out of me. I was thinking of an analogy the other day - I will gently rest my head on a wall if those with that opinion will run into it as fast as they can. We will both be just touching the wall!

I could do better - and will - but I try to reduce my consumption. I’m eating a lot less meat this year. I’m going to sell my car shortly.
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Eating less meat isn't good for the environment it's only good for the continued production of food for humans. A field full of cows has a lot more wildlife in it than a sterile field of wheat or corn that is almost insect free.
 
Kevj said:
Humans didn’t possess the knowledge to prevent ice ages, we still don’t now. We also didn’t directly contribute, but we did manage to live through and survive.

There’s been times in our past where the CO2 levels have been 20x higher and equalising effects have brought the temperature back to what we consider to be normal.

No one can say that we have or have not caused this, we are just a contributing factor.
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There have been changes in climate throughout the past but in cycles of gradual warming and cooling over long periods of time - very long periods of time, thousands, hundred of thousands or millions of years. We're seeing rapid change over decades which can't be explained by those natural cycles but can be explained by anthropogenic activity. It's because of that there's broad scientific consensus that we have caused the dramatic change we're seeing happening over a short period of time.
 
The King of Um said:
There have been changes in climate throughout the past but in cycles of gradual warming and cooling over long periods of time - very long periods of time, thousands, hundred of thousands or millions of years. We're seeing rapid change over decades which can't be explained by those natural cycles but can be explained by anthropogenic activity. It's because of that there's broad scientific consensus that we have caused the dramatic change we're seeing happening over a short period of time.
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Significant and long term shifts, yes. But there’s also short term blips. Can you say with any level of certainty this is long term or short term blip?
For what it’s worth, I do believe we have influenced our climate negatively, I’m just not convinced we are solely to blame.
 
Kevj said:
Significant and long term shifts, yes. But there’s also short term blips. Can you say with any level of certainty this is long term or short term blip?
For what it’s worth, I do believe we have influenced our climate negatively, I’m just not convinced we are solely to blame.
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I'm happy to go with the overall scientific view that the debate was over some time ago.
 
'We' will get there eventually. Will probably come out the other side numbering a few billion less than we do now but we'll get there.

The ramifications of climate change are huge but I do think it's something we need to go through and will end up all the better for it.
 
sidneyeric said:
I've never denied the damage being done by climate change however when it was used an excuse to raise taxes I stopped caring that much.
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How else can governments stop people from using too much fossil fuels etc?
babyimreadytoblow said:
'We' will get there eventually. Will probably come out the other side numbering a few billion less than we do now but we'll get there.

The ramifications of climate change are huge but I do think it's something we need to go through and will end up all the better for it.
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I’d agree if you’d have written that 49 years ago. I suspect we have left it too late now.
 
Kent_Mackem said:
How else can governments stop people from using too much fossil fuels etc?

I’d agree if you’d have written that 49 years ago. I suspect we have left it too late now.
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We haven't yet left it too late but it seems we have this decade only before we reach the tipping point where it becomes irreversible.

Good news is we can still do something about it. We can use our votes, we can change our habits and make corporations and governments act too. We are not helpless observers.
 
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The Great Soprendo said:
We haven't yet left it too late but it seems we have this decade only before we reach the tipping point where it becomes irreversible.

Good news is we can still do something about it. We can use our votes, we can change our habits and make corporations and governments act too. We are not helpless observers.
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This is true but I don’t think we have a decade. I’m not optimistic that we will change quickly enough.

CEOs are still behaving like this to protect their bonuses - and not getting personally fined for it!

www.theguardian.com

Southern Water fined record £90m for deliberately pouring sewage into sea

Privatised firm dumped billions of litres of raw sewage off north Kent and Hampshire coasts to avoid costs and penalties
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 

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