Post Office scandal

stapler said:
There is more to it than merely a shit IT system. Governments sat by as POCL sent innocent people to jail. The Labour and coalition governments ignored the growing clamour while innocent folk had their lives destroyed.

The Private Eye report sets out the key players in the hall of shame - free to download here and well worth a read.
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One particular government rewarded one of the main protagonists in the scandal a CBE and a place in the cabinet. And this wasn't back in 2009, or 2014, it was in 2019 & 20 when things were collapsing like a pack of cards and she was having the finger pointed at her.
 


Paddy O'Dors said:
One particular government rewarded one of the main protagonists in the scandal a CBE and a place in the cabinet. And this wasn't back in 2009, or 2014, it was in 2019 & 20 when things were collapsing like a pack of cards and she was having the finger pointed at her.
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So? That doesn't wipe the Labour and Lib Dem failure from the slate. The scandal was a colossal political failure overseen by all three main parties.
 
stapler said:
So? That doesn't wipe the Labour and Lib Dem failure from the slate. The scandal was a colossal political failure overseen by all three main parties.
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I agree. But there's only one government that's rewarded any of the protagonists and like happens quite often with them shows a terrible lack of judgement.
 
Vince Cable was on R4 news on Friday night discussing the cases with Evan Davis, claimed he knew nothing about the number of prosecutions even though he had been the relevant Secretary of State.
Sounds like there's been covering up in POCL, Fujitsu (who had an expert repeatedly testify the system was foolproof despite knowing it was bugged) and the Government.
 
Paddy O'Dors said:
Labour stopped the Horizon project in it's tracks in 1999 and subsequently the Department of Social Security wanted nothing to do with it. The decision to carry on using it in Post Office counters was wholly down to POCL, who had been given further autonomy in the Postal Services Act (2000). Dunno where all this Labour/Lib Dem stuff comes from tbh.
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Because he's desperate for it not to be anything to do with the Tories. Notice even when he mentions the coalition government he blames the Lib Dems.
 
the dude said:
Because he's desperate for it not to be anything to do with the Tories. Notice even when he mentions the coalition government he blames the Lib Dems.
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I have specifically criticised all three main parties, twice. I criticised the initial proposal (of the Conservatives) to create a benefit fraud database at a cost of billions. (My beef was and remains that the blame for what happened can't be laid at the door of the initial project, not that the initial project was not a bad idea for different reasons.)

I referred to the Lib Dems for 2 reasons: (1) the Lib Dems provided the ministers in charge of the post office remit for nearly all of the coalition; and (2) @Cockney Mackem, with whom I was debating, already blames the Conservatives for every bad that has ever happened or ever will happen.

Honestly, trying to have a grown up debate on this board is impossible, because it is stuffed full of fragile children who can't conceive of a world where everything can't be put into a red or blue box. "RED GOOD! / BLUE BAD!" or vice versa. "HE SAID RED THING. MUST STOP HIM SAY RED THING WITH MY WORDS!" (or vice versa). "HE SAYING RED THING TO MAN WHO SAID BLUE THING. MUST HELP MAN WHO SAYING RED THING BECAUSE ME NO LIKE BLUE THINGS. ME LIKE RED THINGS." (or vice versa)

Politics in the country is a mess, largely because people have abandoned their critical reasoning in favour of preening themselves in front of a like-minded crowd.
 
stapler said:
I have specifically criticised all three main parties, twice. I criticised the initial proposal (of the Conservatives) to create a benefit fraud database at a cost of billions. (My beef was and remains that the blame for what happened can't be laid at the door of the initial project, not that the initial project was not a bad idea for different reasons.)

I referred to the Lib Dems for 2 reasons: (1) the Lib Dems provided the ministers in charge of the post office remit for nearly all of the coalition; and (2) @Cockney Mackem, with whom I was debating, already blames the Conservatives for every bad that has ever happened or ever will happen.

Honestly, trying to have a grown up debate on this board is impossible, because it is stuffed full of fragile children who can't conceive of a world where everything can't be put into a red or blue box. "RED GOOD! / BLUE BAD!" or vice versa. "HE SAID RED THING. MUST STOP HIM SAY RED THING WITH MY WORDS!" (or vice versa). "HE SAYING RED THING TO MAN WHO SAID BLUE THING. MUST HELP MAN WHO SAYING RED THING BECAUSE ME NO LIKE BLUE THINGS. ME LIKE RED THINGS." (or vice versa)

Politics in the country is a mess, largely because people have abandoned their critical reasoning in favour of preening themselves in front of a like-minded crowd.
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Let's look at the bit where after several posts where I was clearly in line with the general thrust of the discussion that the post office and their overarching ministers were at fault, I then noted that the project had started as a Tory crackdown on benefits, and you accused me of trying to erase blame on everyone else involved over 26 years.

It's a bit rich that you complain about how hard it is to have a proper political discussion when you're so prone to taking those discussions down rabbit holes from which they never return
 
Cockney Mackem said:
Let's look at the bit where after several posts where I was clearly in line with the general thrust of the discussion that the post office and their overarching ministers were at fault, I then noted that the project had started as a Tory crackdown on benefits, and you accused me of trying to erase blame on everyone else involved over 26 years.

It's a bit rich that you complain about how hard it is to have a proper political discussion when you're so prone to taking those discussions down rabbit holes from which they never return
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Very little of that actually happened.
 
I've heard this discussed a few times over the years on radio phone-in discussion shows. Some of those accused were putting their own money in to clear the discrepancies.
One Asian man said they had a successful shop and decided to take on a post office franchise which ended up ruining them. He said his wife eventually had enough and killed herself because of the stress and shame. He said they came to this country to build a new life and their lives were destroyed instead.
It shouldn't be enough for the PO to pay compensation and a company fine. Individuals in that organisation should be prosecuted and given long sentences to reflect the damage they've inflicted on innocent and decent people. It won't happen though.
 
zinedine said:
I've heard this discussed a few times over the years on radio phone-in discussion shows. Some of those accused were putting their own money in to clear the discrepancies.
One Asian man said they had a successful shop and decided to take on a post office franchise which ended up ruining them. He said his wife eventually had enough and killed herself because of the stress and shame. He said they came to this country to build a new life and their lives were destroyed instead.
It shouldn't be enough for the PO to pay compensation and a company fine. Individuals in that organisation should be prosecuted and given long sentences to reflect the damage they've inflicted on innocent and decent people. It won't happen though.
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Tragic story, these people must be brought to justice and face up to their crimes.
 
jayjaysafc said:
Tragic story, these people must be brought to justice and face up to their crimes.
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Anybody involved in the persecution and the prosecution of those people I don't know how they sleep at night. It was clear enough for a blind man to see that something was not right. It's like that little Britain sketch "the computer says no" or rather the computer says you're guilty so you must be.
 
zinedine said:
Anybody involved in the persecution and the prosecution of those people I don't know how they sleep at night. It was clear enough for a blind man to see that something was not right. It's like that little Britain sketch "the computer says no" or rather the computer says you're guilty so you must be.
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They must have felt like nobody was listening to them
 
Paddy O'Dors said:
Vennells stepping down from everywhere.

www.bbc.co.uk

Post office scandal: Ex-boss quits director jobs after scandal

Paula Vennells steps down from Dunelm and Morrisons after an IT scandal which saw workers wrongfully convicted.
www.bbc.co.uk
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Wont bring anyone back, but she needs to do serious time for this.

How, that no one in the organisation stopped to think that Post Masters of previous good character were all having the same problems, and not think that their may be a link is shameful
 
Kevan Jones sums it up perfectly:

On 19 March 2020, Vennells was harshly criticised in the House of Commons, particularly by Kevan Jones, MP for North Durham, who said:

Obviously, as a board member she knew what was going on, including the strategy in the court case and the bugs in the system. What happened? She got a CBE in the new year’s honours list for services to the Post Office. That is just rubbing salt into the wounds of these innocent people. There is a case for her having that honour removed, and I would like to know how she got it in the first place when the court case is ongoing. Added to that, she is now chair of Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust. Again, I would like to know why and what due diligence was done on her as an individual...
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Paddy O'Dors said:
I worked in RM when this started (and Horizon was launched). It was pretty obvious there was summat wrong from the outset. How could one organisation employ so many crooks, all without a blemish to their name previously?

Pretty shameful of the Post Office the way they've tried to bury it and didn't make any attempt to correct the software.
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it may be that they thought this magic software was doing the business and catching the so called dodgy ones out.
not everybody was accused though, so I wonder the reasons why some were singled out and others were not. whether it being the postmaster or an assistant.
as usual where money is concerned there will always be somebody tempted to slip a £20 in their pocket and it gets out of hand.
I am puzzled as to what made the money go missing, how was it shown to have been paid in and how did it disappear or was just that it just appeared to disappear.
As every case went through the courts and police, I can only think some rather big assumptions were made at some point.
was it a case a trial was heard and a judge ruled that the software could be trusted.
rather like the judge ruling that DNA could be used as evidence
 

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