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NUFC thread 2021.

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Binxy said:
So if Bruce delivers what was asked (survival, after all that's all Ashley's interested in, according to every mag on here) then big Steve should expect a pay rise, right?
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Sure, by Ashley's metrics he should be due a pay rise.

The problem you have with comparing Benitez and Bruce is that they've inherited the club at different times. It's not different to Ross and Johnson. Benitez arrived with a team about to go down. He took them down, overhauled the squad, got them up, then stabalised them with a fairly mediocre squad before adding bits of quality.

Steve has come in and had a lot more freedom in the market. He's been allowed to sign the likes of Jeff Hendrick, Ryan Fraser et al. You would expect for that reason that he'd at least maintain if not improve things, right? Last season he managed to maintain, so this year should have been the kick on. Instead, we've dropped like four places. Bruce hasn't been a manager that finishes campaigns strongly. Benitez was. We had some rough runs on him when we got promoted, but you always had faith that the back nine would correct it.

I'm not convinced Bruce does that and we're on those back nine holes. He may fluke a few birdies, he may smash them all into the pond. The fact he's a total f***ing dinosaur tactically and has all the charm of stepping on a plug doesn't help.
 

"Delivered what was asked, wouldn't you expect a pay rise"

Your words, sounds to me like you thought Ashley should have rewarded him with a pay rise.

So I'm asking g you, not what Ashley would do.

If Steve Bruce delivers what was asked does he deserve a pay rise?
 
Cloughie said:
Sure, by Ashley's metrics he should be due a pay rise.

The problem you have with comparing Benitez and Bruce is that they've inherited the club at different times. It's not different to Ross and Johnson. Benitez arrived with a team about to go down. He took them down, overhauled the squad, got them up, then stabalised them with a fairly mediocre squad before adding bits of quality.

Steve has come in and had a lot more freedom in the market. He's been allowed to sign the likes of Jeff Hendrick, Ryan Fraser et al. You would expect for that reason that he'd at least maintain if not improve things, right? Last season he managed to maintain, so this year should have been the kick on. Instead, we've dropped like four places. Bruce hasn't been a manager that finishes campaigns strongly. Benitez was. We had some rough runs on him when we got promoted, but you always had faith that the back nine would correct it.

I'm not convinced Bruce does that and we're on those back nine holes. He may fluke a few birdies, he may smash them all into the pond. The fact he's a total f***ing dinosaur tactically and has all the charm of stepping on a plug doesn't help.
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You seem to ignore the fact the Rafa inherited a squad that should never have been relegated. He then proceeded to spent around £150m to develop his own squad and the only reason he finally kept Newcastle up was due to the form of Rondon and Perez.

When Bruce took over, most mags had them down for certain relegation as the squad was really poor, this being the squad Rafa left behind. Bruce didn’t have the benefit of Rondon and Perez to pull him out of the sh!t, yet he still managed to emulate the great Rafa.

Had Rafa lost the availability of Rondon and/or Perez and ended up with relegation, would the fans have wanted rid of him, or simply blame Ashley? I think we all know the answer to that one.
 
Cloughie said:
Sure, by Ashley's metrics he should be due a pay rise.

The problem you have with comparing Benitez and Bruce is that they've inherited the club at different times. It's not different to Ross and Johnson. Benitez arrived with a team about to go down. He took them down, overhauled the squad, got them up, then stabalised them with a fairly mediocre squad before adding bits of quality.

Steve has come in and had a lot more freedom in the market. He's been allowed to sign the likes of Jeff Hendrick, Ryan Fraser et al. You would expect for that reason that he'd at least maintain if not improve things, right? Last season he managed to maintain, so this year should have been the kick on. Instead, we've dropped like four places. Bruce hasn't been a manager that finishes campaigns strongly. Benitez was. We had some rough runs on him when we got promoted, but you always had faith that the back nine would correct it.

I'm not convinced Bruce does that and we're on those back nine holes. He may fluke a few birdies, he may smash them all into the pond. The fact he's a total f***ing dinosaur tactically and has all the charm of stepping on a plug doesn't help.
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What shite these mags write. Who is et al???
Benitez could not keep you in the prem, spent millions on decent Championship players to get out then left for loads of cash and lots of Championship players at NUFC.
What the f does"Bruce hasn't been a manager that finishes campaigns strongly. Benitez was"? He relegated you!
 
Mr B said:
You seem to ignore the fact the Rafa inherited a squad that should never have been relegated. He then proceeded to spent around £150m to develop his own squad and the only reason he finally kept Newcastle up was due to the form of Rondon and Perez.

When Bruce took over, most mags had them down for certain relegation as the squad was really poor, this being the squad Rafa left behind. Bruce didn’t have the benefit of Rondon and Perez to pull him out of the sh!t, yet he still managed to emulate the great Rafa.

Had Rafa lost the availability of Rondon and/or Perez and ended up with relegation, would the fans have wanted rid of him, or simply blame Ashley? I think we all know the answer to that one.
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Right and he had 10 games. It was always going to take a mammoth return to keep us up because you found form. You recorded some great, unexpected results, on that run.

One thing ill say of both is that they've been hamstrung by a policy that ignores common sense of football. The fact we’re still relying on Gayle is evidence of that. I think we've bought one CM since promotion and he plays for Real Sociedad.

Also, last time I checked it wasn't on Rafa to sign Rondon - the player he pushed them to sign. The player he wanted instead of Joelinton.

Even that £150m figure, a third of that went on rebuilding our squad post relegation. If you know a way to sign a squad of PL capable players in the Championship let me know. Sure, he had his mistakes, so has Bruce, which is why both have had to wrestle with Ashley’s daft policy.
 
Cloughie said:
Right and he had 10 games. It was always going to take a mammoth return to keep us up because you found form. You recorded some great, unexpected results, on that run.

One thing ill say of both is that they've been hamstrung by a policy that ignores common sense of football. The fact we’re still relying on Gayle is evidence of that. I think we've bought one CM since promotion and he plays for Real Sociedad.

Also, last time I checked it wasn't on Rafa to sign Rondon - the player he pushed them to sign. The player he wanted instead of Joelinton.

Even that £150m figure, a third of that went on rebuilding our squad post relegation. If you know a way to sign a squad of PL capable players in the Championship let me know. Sure, he had his mistakes, so has Bruce, which is why both have had to wrestle with Ashley’s daft policy.
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I'll ask you again seen as you didn't answer earlier.

If Bruce does what is asked of him, does he deserve a pay rise?
 
Binxy said:
By Ashleys metrics, what about you?
You obviously feel Ashley should have given Rafa a pay rise, what about Bruce?

After all he's delivered what was asked of him.
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Rafa finished 10th with a championship squad and didn’t get a pay rise, why should Bruce get one for finishing 17th after spending about 80 million and taking the team backwards ?
 
Blue_Monday said:
Rafa finished 10th with a championship squad and didn’t get a pay rise, why should Bruce get one for finishing 17th after spending about 80 million and taking the team backwards ?
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I was replying to one of your lot that implied Rafa should have had a pay rise after delivering what was asked of him.

Surely the same applies to Bruce.
 
Binxy said:
By Ashleys metrics, what about you?
You obviously feel Ashley should have given Rafa a pay rise, what about Bruce?

After all he's delivered what was asked of him.
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I feel like you're angling for a gotcha moment or some kind of hypocrisy.

Blue_Monday has hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't reward regression. Across the two years, he matched him in year one but he's not even maintained that this year. League positions can be misleading sometimes because one year 44 points is 13th another it's 10th. In pure points terms, we're never getting close to 44.
 
And as for having a Championship squad, it wasn't, it was a squad that was too good for the Championship hence finishing top.
Cloughie said:
I feel like you're angling for a gotcha moment or some kind of hypocrisy.

Blue_Monday has hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't reward regression. Across the two years, he matched him in year one but he's not even maintained that this year. League positions can be misleading sometimes because one year 44 points is 13th another it's 10th. In pure points terms, we're never getting close to 44.
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Guilty as charged.
 
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