Joe Root - The Captain

[dixonsafc]

Really interesting piece on Sky around captaincy yesterday with Nasser, Atherton + Warne and whether a captain can be judged purely on results.

Of England captains over 10 matches only WG Grace, Percy Chapman, Douglas Jardine (all pre WW2) + Mike Brearley have a better win % than Joe Root.

This was a bit of a shock for me, as I've never thought of him as a 'good captain' (nor that bad either) but also have felt over the last few years our batting line up has been below par for what you expect at test level for England.

So the question is, is Joe Root underrated in terms of his performance as England captain? Does his lack of an Ashes victory make people think less of him?

Is the batting line up better than it's been give credit for over the last 4 years? Or have the bowlers just dragged us out of the shit time after time?

Some video clips from the Sky piece here -

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[wayne entwhistle no9]

Got to at least win an Ashes series preferably in Australia. Always been that way.

 

[gowlcra]

Personally don’t rate him as captain but I think that’s based not only on his personality and results. He’s not what you would call a typical leader

 

[CraigyLee]

Does an ok job I reckon ... the batting lineup has been all over the place through his tenure

think he’d love to drop it but there’s no one who can step up imo can’t give it to stokes the lad does too much as it is

 

[cooky]

Issue is who else would captain the side? Out of the batsman there is only Root and Stokes guaranteed to start over the last few years. Maybe Burns could be seen as a viable option but would be a couple of years down the line yet.

 

[The Rat]

Got to at least win an Ashes series preferably in Australia. Always been that way.

Why? No it doesn't.

Strauss won there in my life time, that is it.

Root is a decent enough captain, dont underestimate how hard it is to foster an environment where players play for you and trust you

this isn't remotely aimed at you btw, but there is a very much a "better back in my day" to modern cricketers and captains from fans, journos and media.

England win a lot of cricket games now, played some cracking entertaining cricket too, never seem to get much credit for it.




I'd say Root done a good job like, also remember England is the hardest place in the world to bat, so every team that comes over has a gun bowling attack an are bang in the game, its class to watch, but also means might lose the odd game

think we have lost 1 home series in over 7 years like

 

[The Breen Machine]

He’s doing a decent job but he’s not a natural leader and we have too many sessions where we seem to lose our discipline and he lets it drift.

Probably been a bit too loyal to certain players and I think his batting has regressed slightly. He doesn’t make the big scores that Kohi, Smith and Williamson do.

 

[HarrogateMackem]

A think it is really interesting in the past few days that Anderson and Butler have both come out and said 'I played poorly in the past game but I will do better'. Whether you believe them or not, it is fantastic that the team feel supported and happy enough to come out and say that. Fostering that environment, from what we had before, was not an easy job.

If this top order (Burnes, Sibley, Crawley, Root, Stokes, Pope) is starting to settle and the bowlers (Woakes, Archer, Curren, Bess) can find their rhythm and form, then we might well have a platform to build off.

I also think as others have said, rightly or wrongly, his entire captaincy will be defined on the tour down under that is looming on the horizon.

 

[TopCat]

I don't think he's a natural captain but then again I was never sure about Cook either
Where he's maybe been at a disadvantage is that we are a side in transition. Mainstays of the side such as Cook, Trott and Bell have left the squad in recent years and been replaced with (seemingly) sub-standard players. The flipside is that he's had Ben Stokes in unbelievable form and Broad/Anderson still pulling us out of the shit

I agree with previous posts about his lack of proactivity as a captain - too many sessions slide when plan A doesn't work

Who else is there though? That's the main issue

 

[TheRey]

I don't think he's a natural captain but then again I was never sure about Cook either
Where he's maybe been at a disadvantage is that we are a side in transition. Mainstays of the side such as Cook, Trott and Bell have left the squad in recent years and been replaced with (seemingly) sub-standard players. The flipside is that he's had Ben Stokes in unbelievable form and Broad/Anderson still pulling us out of the shit

I agree with previous posts about his lack of proactivity as a captain - too many sessions slide when plan A doesn't work

Who else is there though? That's the main issue

I think you're spot on about Root and Cook never looking like "natural captains". But I guess that's the problem with the modern game in England - our best players never get the chance to captain for their county before being given the top job.

Stokes did well as stand in but we can't overburdened him; Burns is an excellent skipper at County level (yeah yeah, Surrey bias etc) but needs to cement his place in the side

 

[TopCat]

I think you're spot on about Root and Cook never looking like "natural captains". But I guess that's the problem with the modern game in England - our best players never get the chance to captain for their county before being given the top job.

Stokes did well as stand in but we can't overburdened him; Burns is an excellent skipper at County level (yeah yeah, Surrey bias etc) but needs to cement his place in the side

That's a great point. Central contracts are brilliant for the Test Team but it reduces their exposure to the County Game and the the art of captaincy

 

[dixonsafc]

I don't think he's a natural captain but then again I was never sure about Cook either
Where he's maybe been at a disadvantage is that we are a side in transition. Mainstays of the side such as Cook, Trott and Bell have left the squad in recent years and been replaced with (seemingly) sub-standard players. The flipside is that he's had Ben Stokes in unbelievable form and Broad/Anderson still pulling us out of the shit

I agree with previous posts about his lack of proactivity as a captain - too many sessions slide when plan A doesn't work

Who else is there though? That's the main issue

You've pretty much summed up how I feel about him as a captain, which was why I was shocked to see he had such a good win % and also surprised he's captained 43 tests. I would have never thought that he had a better win ratio than everyone in the modern era other than Brearley, especially given the top order being a shambles during his tenure.

It made me wonder about how much we weight results of the ashes over everything else. Has he actually been better than we are wiling to give him credit for?

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

His record is pretty decent, but he doesn’t come across as a leader to me either. I, maybe mistakenly, think he’s a bit soft. I know you don’t have to be a shouter to be tough, but I do wonder if he is brutal enough to make hard decisions

 

[zebediah]

I've always found England Captains to play safe far too much, assume out of fear of being ragged by the tabloids if they make daring aggressive decisions that don't turn out well.
In contrast I love Morgan's captaincy in the short formats "He who dares Rodney".

 

[Voice of fair play]

This win ratio as captain is another stat.

Too much is based on stats, it depends on your side don’t think Ponting was a particularly good captain but he had a hell of a side !

 

[TopCat]

You've pretty much summed up how I feel about him as a captain, which was why I was shocked to see he had such a good win % and also surprised he's captained 43 tests. I would have never thought that he had a better win ratio than everyone in the modern era other than Brearley, especially given the top order being a shambles during his tenure.

It made me wonder about how much we weight results of the ashes over everything else. Has he actually been better than we are wiling to give him credit for?

Next 2 winters will tell us a lot. India away and the Ashes down under

This win ratio as captain is another stat.

Too much is based on stats, it depends on your side don’t think Ponting was a particularly good captain but he had a hell of a side !

That side didn't need coaching or captaining.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Next 2 winters will tell us a lot. India away and the Ashes down under

That side didn't need coaching or captaining.

Yeah at the end of the day, captains can slightly influence results with tactics etc.

But in the main it’s the players in your side that win you games and influence it a lot more

 

[dixonsafc]

This win ratio as captain is another stat.

Too much is based on stats, it depends on your side don’t think Ponting was a particularly good captain but he had a hell of a side !

That's kinda what I was getting at though, Root hasn't been blessed with that great of an England side (from a batting perspective anyway). Our top order has been a mess since Root came in as captain. We've consistently been 50-3.

 

[GuestServices]

Prefer him to just bat, his batting has gone tits up since he became captain. Sure he was averaging mid 50’s before taking over.

 

[Voice of fair play]

That's kinda what I was getting at though, Root hasn't been blessed with that great of an England side (from a batting perspective anyway). Our top order has been a mess since Root came in as captain. We've consistently been 50-3.

Yeah I can say what you saying, but when you look at the games we winning with all respect to Root, don’t think he has influenced them results was the victory in South Africa to do with him or the players. The Ashes victories in last summer especially one of them was down to the players rather than the captain