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When do we start talking about Jos Buttler?

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chunkylover53 said:
As I say, you can’t have it every way. You can’t argue Anderson and Broad as a reason for no stumping and then dismiss the fewer catches. I’m not stupid enough to dismiss the attack as important, but it’s bizarre how poor his stats are relative to others, particularly stumping.

That’s fine (I guess), if he’s excelling with the bat. But he ain’t. He’s ok. he’ll get you a 30 or so every other game. Ian Healy did that, but he was a quality keeper.

he’s ok ish at both, but thats not good enough
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Yeah I do get that argument in your first paragraph, but if he hasn’t dropped any either surely you can get mine too?
 

rentaghost said:
What do you think the main mode of dismissal in SA and Aus is like? I would suggest you get more in Aus with bounce making Lbw and bowled less than it would in England?
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I'll be fair mate, I hadn't thought of it like that - you may have a point.

But for me, in England, ball nipping around = edges galore. Look how many times England beat the bat even without taking wickets - England's most common mode of dismissal is comfortably caught behind or in the slips.
 
Voice of fair play said:
I think tbf if we have stats of him missing loads of chances that would be a bigger stat to back up your argument
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I’m not sure they exist. But at times keepers make their own through foot movement. There was a mega tough one today before the Burns drop, it would have been a great catch but the best keepers could have got there because their foot work is so good

Maybe to be clear, I like the man. He’s magnificent in white ball. I simply don’t think he’s good enough at either disciple for test match cricket
 
TheRey said:
I'll be fair mate, I hadn't thought of it like that - you may have a point.

But for me, in England, ball nipping around = edges galore. Look how many times England beat the bat even without taking wickets - England's most common mode of dismissal is comfortably caught behind or in the slips.
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Which is fair enough but how many catches behind of the seamers can you remember Buttler dropping?
 
chunkylover53 said:
I’m not sure they exist. But at times keepers make their own through foot movement. There was a mega tough one today before the Burns drop, it would have been a great catch but the best keepers could have got there because their foot work is so good

Maybe to be clear, I like the man. He’s magnificent in white ball. I simply don’t think he’s good enough at either disciple for test match cricket
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Exactly how I feel about him.

We all know my thoughts on Bairstow, but even he's a far superior keeper to Buttler
 
rentaghost said:
If a keeper has 13 stumpings and missed 5 is that better or worse than a keeper that has no stumpings and missed one? There is only context in those stats if you know how many stumping chances have been missed by all keepers.
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Course. But the sample size is big enough now surely (tests) to imply that he could have had a couple? It can’t be a statistical anomaly if Chris Read has 6 in 15 tests and he has none in 46? (Not all keeping)
 
chunkylover53 said:
I’m not sure they exist. But at times keepers make their own through foot movement. There was a mega tough one today before the Burns drop, it would have been a great catch but the best keepers could have got there because their foot work is so good

Maybe to be clear, I like the man. He’s magnificent in white ball. I simply don’t think he’s good enough at either disciple for test match cricket
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Yeah tbf and conclude the argument of course I see your point and tbf I am a bit biased with Buttler as my favourite cricketer so I am possibly less objective with him, than with other players.

Although imo they is not a obvious better player in his slot out there either.

And the selectors must think soo too👍

If we had a De Kock or someone of similar ability he would probably not be in the test side and rightly soo
 
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Voice of fair play said:
Yeah tbf and conclude the argument of course I see your point and tbf I am a bit biased with Buttler as my favourite cricketer so I am possibly less objective with him, than with other players.

Although imo they is not a obvious better player in his slot out there either.
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He’s great at white ball. Marvellous

in tests, Bairstow (sigh) is better. And Foakes deserves a shot. And still that doesn’t mean you don’t try others.

We wouldn’t have picked Crawley on first class stats for example, try Bracey or Robinson or Cox or someone.
 
Voice of fair play said:
Which is fair enough but how many catches behind of the seamers can you remember Buttler dropping?
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Off the top of my head, I'd be lying if I said there are loads that come to mind. But there will have been a few.

I agree with Chunks. I love buttler as a bloke and a cricketer, but he ain't good enough at Test level.

To make a comparison - in football, I support ROI. I f***ing love Clinton Morrison, who scored over 100 goals for Palace. But when Clinton was in his heyday, if Mick McCarthy had picked him to start in big games over Robbie Keane, I'd have wanted McCarthys head examined.

It's the same here. I really like Jos Buttler, but he ain't good enough.
 
Voice of fair play said:
Well yeah that is why I made the point about Kieswetter
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I was making this point back in 2016 after his 3rd(?) recall. People were calling for Buttler to take the gloves off Bairstow back then, when Bairstow was breaking records for runs playing as a 'keeper.

At the same time, Buttler scored about 50 runs in two seasons for Lancs and wouldn't even get the gloves in an injury crisis. And then got recalled by England. It was a bizarre selection then, still is now.
 
chunkylover53 said:
Course. But the sample size is big enough now surely (tests) to imply that he could have had a couple? It can’t be a statistical anomaly if Chris Read has 6 in 15 tests and he has none in 46? (Not all keeping)
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To be fair if Buttler had missed stumpings in test cricket I have absolutely no doubt that you, the Rey and Steak pie would know about it ;)
 
TheRey said:
Off the top of my head, I'd be lying if I said there are loads that come to mind. But there will have been a few.

I agree with Chunks. I love buttler as a bloke and a cricketer, but he ain't good enough at Test level.

To make a comparison - in football, I support ROI. I f***ing love Clinton Morrison, who scored over 100 goals for Palace. But when Clinton was in his heyday, if Mick McCarthy had picked him to start in big games over Robbie Keane, I'd have wanted McCarthys head examined.

It's the same here. I really like Jos Buttler, but he ain't good enough.
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Yeah but to use your own comparison is there someone in England who is lot better then Buttler than Keane was better than Morrison
 
TheRey said:
Off the top of my head, I'd be lying if I said there are loads that come to mind. But there will have been a few.

I agree with Chunks. I love buttler as a bloke and a cricketer, but he ain't good enough at Test level.

To make a comparison - in football, I support ROI. I f***ing love Clinton Morrison, who scored over 100 goals for Palace. But when Clinton was in his heyday, if Mick McCarthy had picked him to start in big games over Robbie Keane, I'd have wanted McCarthys head examined.

It's the same here. I really like Jos Buttler, but he ain't good enough.
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What’s the story with Foakes at the minute not playing for Surrey. Is he injured?
 
Steak Pie said:
I was making this point back in 2016 after his 3rd(?) recall. People were calling for Buttler to take the gloves off Bairstow back then, when Bairstow was breaking records for runs playing as a 'keeper.

At the same time, Buttler scored about 50 runs in two seasons for Lancs and wouldn't even get the gloves in an injury crisis. And then got recalled by England. It was a bizarre selection then, still is now.
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Well that’s where I disagree because at the point you were saying it was bizarre ,for the tests he played straight after that were probably his best, so you could say it was a inspired and brave selection
 
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