• The forums will be unavailable for a few hours on Saturday 6th June, when they do return they will initially be in a degraded state with some features missing, but normal posting/reading will be possible. The main website will not be affected by these updates.
    New user registrations are currently disabled.
    Some other features of the forum are also currently disabled.

June to July 2020 - NUFC

Status
Not open for further replies.
Binxy said:
Come to think of it.

Almiron goals under Rafa = 0
Almiron goals under Bruce = 3

The team is clearly thriving under Brucie.
Click to expand...
You're right, Joelinton didn't even make the bench under Benitez, yet this season, not only is he a regular starter, he's chipped in with 4 goals and 4 assists!
What A Waster said:
I'd say ASM is a big reason we do well.
1.89 ppg with him in the side. 72 points over 38 games.
0.73 ppg without him in the side. 28 points over 38 games.
Saw that on Twitter today. Surprising.
Click to expand...
1 league win this season without ASM in the side. He's definitely been a key factor in our 'success'.
 
Last edited:

Binxy said:
Ok then

NUFC all time average position 14.2
Ashley's average position 12.9

What an owner he's got you punching above your weight.
Click to expand...
You should be a magician or politician pulling those meaningless figures out of a hat.....how many skewed stats have used to get the 14.2
 
Rosco said:
You should be a magician or politician pulling those meaningless figures out of a hat.....how many skewed stats have used to get the 14.2
Click to expand...

Under Ashley

12th
18th
21st
12th
5th
16th
10th
15th
18th
21st
10th
13th

Average position 14.25

He's full of shite. As suspected.
 
The Fish said:
I wholeheartedly disagree, it was Perez' traditional uplift in form in the run in plus the freedom given to the players to attack more after safety was more assured. Kenedy was good, but his added spark wasn't in spite of Benitez but very much because Benitez brought him into the club to do that job. Credit goes to Kenedy for his form, but Benitez for bringing him in. You don't give Benitez any credit for it.

We finished on more points, and given we cannot influence other teams' final positions it's the best measure of our success/failure/progress/decline.



In his full seasons Benitez got us promoted as champions, kept us up first season back, then improved on that season's points tally. If that's average to you, then you have more unrealistic expectations of a manager than I do. Especially one working for this owner.

In the previous 10 seasons in the top flight we finished with fewer than 44points on 6 occasions. So, purely in terms of points returned for Newcastle United in the top flight he was above average. Under Ashley Newcastle have finished in the top half on 3 occasions in 12 seasons, one of those under Benitez. Again, better than average. Average PL league position under Ashley? 12.9. Average PL position for Benitez? 11.5. Better than average.

You repeat a line of reasoning I see on here; implying that he's a chequebook manager. He didn't want to spend £40m on Joelinton, he wanted to spend £16m on Rondon. How is that anything but working within his means? He was promised "every penny the club makes", but was not given that. £32m profit in his first full season, £22m loss in second (so still £10m up), £7m loss in his 3rd (still £3m up). That's working within his, and the clubs, means.


Hughton played similarly pragmatic, defensive football to Benitez. And has done at every club he's managed since.

For me, I think it comes down tot he fact you don't like Benitez the man. Which is fine, you're free to dislike whoever you want, but the reasons you put forward just don't stack up to any kind of scrutiny.

I also find that unbelievable.
Click to expand...
This is where I got the 12.9 from.
Sima said:
Nah, it was definitely you.

It's a simple enough calculation to work out.
Click to expand...
Tell that to @The Fish
 
Binxy said:
7.64 😂😂
That's right football didn't exist before 1992.
Click to expand...

You used a Premier League only figure so I did too. What's your point? Do you not want comparative evidence? 🤷‍♂️

We could just do Ashley's 10 seasons versus the immediate 10 preceding that? That's normally how KPI's work (using an identical measurement if possible).
It's 12.9 vs 9.4 btw.
 
Last edited:
Sima said:
You used a Premier League only figure so I did too. What's your point? Do you not want comparative evidence? 🤷‍♂️

We could just do Ashley's 10 seasons versus the immediate 10 preceding that? That's normally how KPI's work (using an identical measurement if possible).
Click to expand...
I used @The Fish figures.
The 14.6 is your all time league placing.
I presumed the 12.9 was Ashley's record for all seasons not just Premier.
 
No bother

There'll be an attempt at a face-saving post from someone soon though, I bet. Usually along the lines of 'evening shift', mentioning a 'rivals board' or similar.
 
The Fish said:
You're right, Joelinton didn't even make the bench under Benitez, yet this season, not only is he a regular starter, he's chipped in with 4 goals and 4 assists!
Click to expand...
Excellent response, I’m in awe of the amazing facts you provide. Could you also provide the date Rafa left and the date Joelinton was signed?
 
The Fish said:
I wholeheartedly disagree, it was Perez' traditional uplift in form in the run in plus the freedom given to the players to attack more after safety was more assured. Kenedy was good, but his added spark wasn't in spite of Benitez but very much because Benitez brought him into the club to do that job. Credit goes to Kenedy for his form, but Benitez for bringing him in. You don't give Benitez any credit for it.
Click to expand...
I have no issue giving Benitez credit for bringing in Kenedy on loan but he was into panic territory with his set up previous to bringing him in, with Perez being messed about and basically all players with any attacking mentality, asked to defend first and foremost.
The body language of the players stood out like a sore thumb and Rafa simply replaced them with those who were willing to simply defend first.
Once Kenedy was unleashed, Perez was allowed to play his game and so were many of those who were sacked off. It worked but would've worked earlier, as well.


The Fish said:
We finished on more points, and given we cannot influence other teams' final positions it's the best measure of our success/failure/progress/decline.
Click to expand...
We finished 13th from previous, 10th.
It's like you arguing that we finished 18th and relegated on more points than we finished 17th and stayed up, then telling me that's us going forward.

The Fish said:
In his full seasons Benitez got us promoted as champions, kept us up first season back, then improved on that season's points tally. If that's average to you, then you have more unrealistic expectations of a manager than I do. Especially one working for this owner.
Click to expand...
I wasn't unhappy with the finishes, even the 13th. What I was unhappy with was the way in which it all happened.
I expected better football from a superbly well paid manager that was taken to like some messiah by some fans and hyped to death by the media.
Better football was what I expected.


The Fish said:
In the previous 10 seasons in the top flight we finished with fewer than 44points on 6 occasions. So, purely in terms of points returned for Newcastle United in the top flight he was above average.
Click to expand...
Take out his championship season and let's see how that works out for him.

The Fish said:
Under Ashley Newcastle have finished in the top half on 3 occasions in 12 seasons, one of those under Benitez. Again, better than average. Average PL league position under Ashley? 12.9. Average PL position for Benitez? 11.5. Better than average.
Click to expand...
One of those seasons we finished 5th.


The Fish said:
You repeat a line of reasoning I see on here; implying that he's a chequebook manager. He didn't want to spend £40m on Joelinton, he wanted to spend £16m on Rondon. How is that anything but working within his means? He was promised "every penny the club makes", but was not given that. £32m profit in his first full season, £22m loss in second (so still £10m up), £7m loss in his 3rd (still £3m up). That's working within his, and the clubs, means.
Click to expand...
Nope. Look at what I did say.


The Fish said:
Hughton played similarly pragmatic, defensive football to Benitez. And has done at every club he's managed since.
Click to expand...
Not anywhere like Benitez did.


The Fish said:
For me, I think it comes down tot he fact you don't like Benitez the man. Which is fine, you're free to dislike whoever you want, but the reasons you put forward just don't stack up to any kind of scrutiny.
Click to expand...
I'm not too fond of Benitez, now but I was ok with him earlier on, until he started his shenanigans and cryptically blaming anyone and everyone for his mistakes and using the fans as his buffer to gain control and have it all his own way in a bluff against Ashley, to which Ashley called and off the mercenary went, to China, with the silly excuse of finding hi8s perfect project at the right time.
What a load of nonsense that was.
12 million a seas worth of blagging nonsense.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top