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Black Lives Matter

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KittenMittens said:
No, but if you disagree with everything they say except the general idea that racism is bad, and tear down the message and the method more than acknowledging that it is largely a well intentioned movement, then people are within their rights to ask if you are as anti-racist as you claim. Simple.

George Floyd is a martyr because he is representative of an underclass. He was not a perfect bloke and he clearly had done bad things (albeit largely over a decade before). As you say, none of that makes it ok to murder him, and he's one in a long list. His death was filmed though, in graphic detail. That's why he's important.
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MrBraithwaite said:
Don’t the police do anything? Can’t say I would be surprised though!
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No, they don’t do shit! Any crime committed by a white person and the victim is black is designated as a ‘hate crime’...but never in reverse! Even when the black person is making racist threats!
 

sir rowell cummins said:
Black people don’t commit crimes because they have skin ffs. Look into it there’s plenty of criminology out there. People commit crime because they are generally : in poorer mental health, on low income, living in poor or overcrowded housing, have low cognitive ability (often linked to traumatic life Experiences Including racism and education), don’t have a job, don’t have a positive lifestyle eg peers who are offenders, are involved in substance misuse, have a pro criminal mindset or sense of grievance. I don’t agree with defunding the police in this country I think they’ve been savaged but I do agree that More money here and in the USA should be redistributed towards families and communities who suffer and that would include many Deprived high crime white communities - I Can think of a few in Sunderland - but in many cases that would be minority groups. Either you’re saying the blacks need ‘sorting out’ in an enforcement kind of way or you’re missing the point entirely that criminality is in the huge majority of cases is a product of psychological and social conditions. So are you saying they should invest more in black communities to reduce crime ? In many ways that’s what BLM - the political movement - are actually saying. Personally I think it’s unhelpful to make social investment and regeneration just about black people it should be about poor people In challenged communities but if we did more based on that criteria we’d support a lot of black people. It’s not because they were genetically born with black skin it’s because society is tougher for many of them. Why would any human with soul not want to raise up people who suffer - whatever their colour. It’s what’s gone tits up about our society. There’s enough cash flushing around in big business ffs. The government recently even printed money to pay for it so it can be found.
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Go watch “The Miracle Worker”, you sound like the type who would boo the teacher...

I live near a bird sanctuary, every 20ft there’s a sign that says ‘Don’t Feed The Birds”, why is that??

Do you have any proof that more social programs would pull people out of poverty...in the US, we have generations on social programs, as soon as they turn 18 they sign up and brag about it being free money!!
What do you think happens when you take away someone’s dignity, take away personal accomplishments, hold someone to a lower standard publicly?
 
sir rowell cummins said:
With respect I think your comparison of poverty here and In other countries is entirely misplaced and incomparable. If I read comparisons of violent crime in London with say the county lines issue in rural communities the drivers are very different so comparing Africa to Manchester doesn’t work.
Status is a complex thing. We seem to want status and identity more and more. Showing you’re cool on here or Facebook matters even to adults. It is definitely a factor in decision making - wanting the clothes others have or better matters for many and more for someone with little else. Poverty even matters in relation to status though. If you are bullied for being smelly, poor it isn’t the fault of the child it’s the fault of the parent at times and often the circumstances they find themselves in - mental health, housing, benefit delays being big factors Currently. Aspiring to have what the other kids have is inevitable. So Factor into that someone offering you good money. In most not all cases dealers don’t hold goods they pay Vulnerable kids to hold them - quite often those with special needs, mental health, parents with difficulties coping, issues and poverty. Also I’d say migrant kids are used a lot these days who have difficulties over language income and employment. There isn’t one issue - it’s a combination of things always - so parental struggles lead to poverty. Be it health or debt or whatever it causes hardship. People can’t wait so go for quick wins to have food, Heating ,belonging. It’s a sad fact. Inner cities have higher numbers of ethic minority communities. Subject to this issue so Are simply more vulnerable. It’s sad cos they’re little humans with personalities who sometimes are dehumanised by their ‘classification’ - offender, gang member, refugee etc but it ain’t going away this cos we say ‘send them home’. So yes status is a factor but also so are the many others linked to poverty and inequality. Trauma is a massive factor From violent crime and when we assess traumatic childhood experiences we look at experiences of racism, extreme poverty as well as others like witnessing violence, migration , living in conflict areas. These are heavily researched. You can see why where you have to live and your experiences As a person of colour create a negative cycle. So I don’t think defund the police Is right it affect these kids - it I do think invest in support is a topic worth discussing. We pay anyway - just for prison places which are a huge cost to the taxpayer. It won’t stop by saying they Just shouldn’t do it.
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Most of what you say is correct in relation to crime. we were talking about the specific of violent crime though.

I think had I of said to you in a conversation that the biggest cause of violent crime is inequality in society, males unable to reach their potential because the route to the top is to steep and difficult so they move to violent crime to gain status, had I of said that I don't think you would have disagreed with me. I think it was only because I said it's not poverty and it hit a nerve did you jump to a apposing view.

A person is more likely to turn to crime if they are poor I agree, yours was a good example, a kid with little is far more likely to carry some drugs for a drug dealer because he wants to buy the pair of Nikes his mates are wearing.
The guy who takes a gun out and shoots you in the face because he caught you dealing on his patch, that is all about status and nothing about poverty.
 
1more said:
Some back tracking going on now

The few that have spoke up have been shut up right away. People have lost there jobs for speaking out against BLM even though they have said nothing racist
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A player for the LA Galaxy in MLS was released by the team because his wife tweeted that the riots are horrible... she wrote the tweet in Serbian
 
LineTrash said:
A player for the LA Galaxy in MLS was released by the team because his wife tweeted that the riots are horrible... she wrote the tweet in Serbian
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Katai’s wife, Tea Katai, who is also from Serbia, posted messages and later took them down when they stirred outrage.

One post showed a screenshot of two New York Police officers driving through a crowd of demonstrators. Tea Katai captioned it in Serbian, but the translation was “kill the s—s!”

Another showed a man with boxes of Nike shoes. She captioned that, “Black Nikes Matter.”

The Associated Press also reported that Tea Katai posted another Serbian entry describing protesters as “disgusting cattle.”


:cool:
 
LineTrash said:
Go watch “The Miracle Worker”, you sound like the type who would boo the teacher...

I live near a bird sanctuary, every 20ft there’s a sign that says ‘Don’t Feed The Birds”, why is that??

Do you have any proof that more social programs would pull people out of poverty...in the US, we have generations on social programs, as soon as they turn 18 they sign up and brag about it being free money!!
What do you think happens when you take away someone’s dignity, take away personal accomplishments, hold someone to a lower standard publicly?
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Are they blackbirds ?
 
LineTrash said:
Go watch “The Miracle Worker”, you sound like the type who would boo the teacher...

I live near a bird sanctuary, every 20ft there’s a sign that says ‘Don’t Feed The Birds”, why is that??

Do you have any proof that more social programs would pull people out of poverty...in the US, we have generations on social programs, as soon as they turn 18 they sign up and brag about it being free money!!
What do you think happens when you take away someone’s dignity, take away personal accomplishments, hold someone to a lower standard publicly?
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'The type'. Enough said.
AndyH said:
Most of what you say is correct in relation to crime. we were talking about the specific of violent crime though.

I think had I of said to you in a conversation that the biggest cause of violent crime is inequality in society, males unable to reach their potential because the route to the top is to steep and difficult so they move to violent crime to gain status, had I of said that I don't think you would have disagreed with me. I think it was only because I said it's not poverty and it hit a nerve did you jump to a apposing view.

A person is more likely to turn to crime if they are poor I agree, yours was a good example, a kid with little is far more likely to carry some drugs for a drug dealer because he wants to buy the pair of Nikes his mates are wearing.
The guy who takes a gun out and shoots you in the face because he caught you dealing on his patch, that is all about status and nothing about poverty.
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Some of the additional risk factors relating to violent crime
- witness to domestic abuse or other abuse against the family
- Recipient of violent and other other abuse and childhood trauma
- Lifestyle - peer relationship, gangs etc
- Sibling linked to violence
- Substance misuse (eg alcohol related, stimulant drug use)
- Access to weapons

Thinking and behaviour (understanding why you act and being to regulate it) and attitudes to offending (having a pro criminal attitude) and 'Perception of self and others' are linked to all offending. I think your point knits into all of them but especially the last one is about whether you view yourself as an offender, whether you think there are justifiable victims. So i think your point actually relates to all offending with those above being closer linked directly to use of violence.

Status is closely linked to membership of gangs which in turn is inevitably linked to violence - that would be recorded under lifestyle effectively.

Sorry of that's a geeky response but i've not long ago done a funding application :)
 
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This is going exactly the way governments and the far right want it to go. Funny that. People aren’t taking about the key issues they are talking about Marxism and changing the narrative on George Floyd.

I’m not denying there isn’t a far left element that hijacked the BLM movement (no they didn’t start it!) however many people in this country seem to accept UKIP were a voice. Their ideology was considered okay because it suited white British people. A modern day NF wrapped in a prick called Nigel. BLM has immediately been called radical and violent and a whole movement tarred with that brush.
 
sir rowell cummins said:
'The type'. Enough said.
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You’re obviously not the type to do any research or find out if certain programs are actually working...or if they’re designed to keep people down and dependent to a political party.
In the USA, 90% of blacks vote straight Democrat. The party who have run these cities for decades!! Why are these cities not producing with top education, economic generational growth or safe neighborhoods??? Why is their record of failure never discussed?? Why are these subjects never openly questioned or debated??
Do you have kids?? Do you pander to them or think that’s a good way to raise a child?? Do you think holding them to a low standard will help them become well adjusted adults?? If you don’t, why do you think it’s ok for other people...black people? Wouldn’t that be racist??
 
LineTrash said:
You’re obviously not the type to do any research or find out if certain programs are actually working...or if they’re designed to keep people down and dependent to a political party.
In the USA, 90% of blacks vote straight Democrat. The party who have run these cities for decades!! Why are these cities not producing with top education, economic generational growth or safe neighborhoods??? Why is their record of failure never discussed?? Why are these subjects never openly questioned or debated??
Do you have kids?? Do you pander to them or think that’s a good way to raise a child?? Do you think holding them to a low standard will help them become well adjusted adults?? If you don’t, why do you think it’s ok for other people...black people? Wouldn’t that be racist??
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So you think Trump the white supremacist will represent black people better ?? Also mate you've categorised me into your discriminatory boxes again. You have no clue what 'type' i am. You don't what colour i am, age, nothing. So stop arguing with your own presumptions it's making you go bananas.

As for 'pandering to kids'. Even that phrase makes you sound like a neanderthal. What does that mean ?? Loving them , meeting their needs, being kind? And what made you think i don't want the best for my kids? You're arguing with some kind of bizarre thought pattern not the me that i know.
 
sir rowell cummins said:
So you think Trump the white supremacist will represent black people better ?? Also mate you've categorised me into your discriminatory boxes again. You have no clue what 'type' i am. You don't what colour i am, age, nothing. So stop arguing with your own presumptions it's making you go bananas.

As for 'pandering to kids'. Even that phrase makes you sound like a neanderthal. What does that mean ?? Loving them , meeting their needs, being kind? And what made you think i don't want the best for my kids? You're arguing with some kind of bizarre thought pattern not the me that i know.
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I categorized you into the ignorant box. You don’t have any proof for your posts. They’re all just a emotional response. If Trump is a white supremacist, why did he create Occupational Zones and not Obama? Why was the black unemployment the lowest in the nations history under Trump? Why was the black entrepreneurship the highest in the nations history under Trump?
I don’t care what color you are, what age or gender? Why does that matter?
You don’t even know what pandering means or what effects it has on people!
I suggest you do some reading...try the Thomas Sowell Reader, great book by a black man, who has done all the research and has all the facts and data (without the emotion) on the subjects being discussed on this thread!!
 
Travis said:
This is going exactly the way governments and the far right want it to go. Funny that. People aren’t taking about the key issues they are talking about Marxism and changing the narrative on George Floyd.

I’m not denying there isn’t a far left element that hijacked the BLM movement (no they didn’t start it!) however many people in this country seem to accept UKIP were a voice. Their ideology was considered okay because it suited white British people. A modern day NF wrapped in a prick called Nigel. BLM has immediately been called radical and violent and a whole movement tarred with that brush.
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BLM hasn't immediately been called radical and violent at all, it's had open support from billion pound corporations the world over, politicians have taken the knee etc. It had been very warmly received by those with power, before they started with the anti semitism.
 
Travis said:
This is going exactly the way governments and the far right want it to go. Funny that. People aren’t taking about the key issues they are talking about Marxism and changing the narrative on George Floyd.

I’m not denying there isn’t a far left element that hijacked the BLM movement (no they didn’t start it!) however many people in this country seem to accept UKIP were a voice. Their ideology was considered okay because it suited white British people. A modern day NF wrapped in a prick called Nigel. BLM has immediately been called radical and violent and a whole movement tarred with that brush.
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you only think people against BLM are the far right because you are so far left that everyone also seems like the right. There are any amount of centre and left of centre people against BLM, it doesn't make them far right.
You have said before that people are changing the narrative on George Floyd, in what way has it been changed?
people are talking about Marxism because BLM is entrenched in it.

How is UKIP a modern day NF?
This is exactly what i mean when I say some of you loonies are so far left you think everyone else is alt right.
The NF is a Far right fascist party, UKIP was just about getting out of Europe, you can be left right or centre and want that.

I've just watched a video by a American cop laughing because he is on his way to police a demonstration organised by BLM, it's a defund the police protest and they have made an official request for police protection, far lefties are daft as a box of frogs if you ask me.
 
sir rowell cummins said:
So you think Trump the white supremacist will represent black people better ?? Also mate you've categorised me into your discriminatory boxes again. You have no clue what 'type' i am. You don't what colour i am, age, nothing. So stop arguing with your own presumptions it's making you go bananas.

As for 'pandering to kids'. Even that phrase makes you sound like a neanderthal. What does that mean ?? Loving them , meeting their needs, being kind? And what made you think i don't want the best for my kids? You're arguing with some kind of bizarre thought pattern not the me that i know.
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Do you actually believe Trump is a white supremacist?
Travis said:
This is going exactly the way governments and the far right want it to go. Funny that. People aren’t taking about the key issues they are talking about Marxism and changing the narrative on George Floyd.

I’m not denying there isn’t a far left element that hijacked the BLM movement (no they didn’t start it!) however many people in this country seem to accept UKIP were a voice. Their ideology was considered okay because it suited white British people. A modern day NF wrapped in a prick called Nigel. BLM has immediately been called radical and violent and a whole movement tarred with that brush.
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More hyperbole.
 
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Travis said:
This is going exactly the way governments and the far right want it to go. Funny that. People aren’t taking about the key issues they are talking about Marxism and changing the narrative on George Floyd.

I’m not denying there isn’t a far left element that hijacked the BLM movement (no they didn’t start it!) however many people in this country seem to accept UKIP were a voice. Their ideology was considered okay because it suited white British people. A modern day NF wrapped in a prick called Nigel. BLM has immediately been called radical and violent and a whole movement tarred with that brush.
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So who started it
 
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