June to July 2020 - NUFC

[The Fish]

Load of f***ing waffle.
Oh and by the way I stopped reading after the first paragraph.

Then this post I'm quoting was totally worth your time...

Ya big weirdo.

 

[Kestrel 9]

A lot of stuff I disagree with in here, mind.

Your post speaks more of your dislike of Benitez than anything else imo. He was pragmatic and defensive, but if you couldn't see control in his systems, if you couldn't see a plan, then I'm afraid you weren't looking hard enough at all.

Benitez got plenty out of players, certainly more out of the centre backs and central midfielders. When RB parked the bus we looked in control of our area and we would successfully kill off a game. When Bruce parks the bus we're reliant on Dubravka having a good game, again. We allow far too many shots, far too many opposition passes, far too much possession in dangerous areas. The outlets that we saw under RB do not exist with SB, despite having players perfectly capable of posing a threat on the counter. It's not even hit and hope, it's get hit and hope.

My disdain for Bruce has fuck all to do with his time as Sunderland manager and everything to do with how bang average he is. How bang average he has been for much of his career in the Premier League.

If you think football is as simple as 11 lads, jumpers for goalposts, or whatever other reductionist claptrap you spouted, you've totally ignored the way the game has changed. Gone is 4-4-2 with a big man/little man combo up front and in come deeper lying forwards who aren't necessarily the main goal scorer. Wingers are playing as inside forwards again. Winning the ball back is every player's responsibility, not just the hatchet-man in the middle. Tiki-Taka, Gegenpress, these aren't just hipster terms, these are tactical set ups that changed the game entirely. Look at Klopp's Liverpool, Guardiola's Barcelona, even Wilder's Shef Utd. They're all making complicated, comprehensive plans for every game, for specific periods or situations in a game.

Good post that bonny lad...they knew their jobs under Rafa....on Sunday they looked like eleven strangers thrown together... abysmal..

 

[Binxy]

Good post that bonny lad...they knew their jobs under Rafa....on Sunday they looked like eleven strangers thrown together... abysmal..

Yet Bruce got further in the cup and is doing better in the league, with a weaker side I might add.

Maybe Rafa wasn't all that after all.

 

[Kestrel 9]

Yet Bruce got further in the cup and is doing better in the league, with a weaker side I might add.

Maybe Rafa wasn't all that after all.

Yet Bruce got further in the cup and is doing better in the league, with a weaker side I might add.

Maybe Rafa wasn't all that after all.

Rafa had his faults...like every manager ....but they always had a plan and knew each others jobs ....that didn't look the case at all on Sunday....that's all I'm saying .

 

[The Ghost of Arca]

Bruce has done a better job than Rafa. Its there for everyone to see

 

[0321safc]

Bruce has done a better job than Rafa. Its there for everyone to see

I also love how Joelinton gets a barrage of criticism as he’s Bruce’s/Ashley’s signing and Rafa supposedly didn’t want him and thus is justified, yet Almiron who was undoubtedly Rafa’s signing gets a whole load of excuses made for him on the basis ‘you’ll do for me, Bonny lad’ brought him in. The reality is both have been very poor signings.

 

[The Fish]

Yet Bruce got further in the cup and is doing better in the league, with a weaker side I might add.

Maybe Rafa wasn't all that after all.

I was told we shouldn't compare the two as they've different players, and the league is different too...

I also love how Joelinton gets a barrage of criticism as he’s Bruce’s/Ashley’s signing and Rafa supposedly didn’t want him and thus is justified, yet Almiron who was undoubtedly Rafa’s signing gets a whole load of excuses made for him on the basis ‘you’ll do for me, Bonny lad’ brought him in. The reality is both have been very poor signings.

Almiron has more goals than Joelinton and has received praise for his play. Joelinton has not.

 

[JL1985]

Today is the day that Alan Pardews 8 year deal would have expired.

One of the best Mag managers of the last 50 years.

 

[0321safc]

I was told we shouldn't compare the two as they've different players, and the league is different too...

Almiron has more goals than Joelinton and has received praise for his play. Joelinton has not.

How many goals has Almiron contributed too in his career with you?

 

[scott934]

Bruce has done a better job than Rafa. Its there for everyone to see

They have been lucky as fuck this season imo, before lockdown they were near the bottom of all performance metrics. Stealing results left, right and centre, I don't think Bruce deserves much credit.

 

[Zak's Dad]

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[The Ghost of Arca]

I also love how Joelinton gets a barrage of criticism as he’s Bruce’s/Ashley’s signing and Rafa supposedly didn’t want him and thus is justified, yet Almiron who was undoubtedly Rafa’s signing gets a whole load of excuses made for him on the basis ‘you’ll do for me, Bonny lad’ brought him in. The reality is both have been very poor signings.

Almiron is f***ing shite. The excuse made for him are class. Facts are he rarely scores or creates. Two pretty important things for a player in that position

 

[Nukehasslefan]

A lot of stuff I disagree with in here, mind.

Your post speaks more of your dislike of Benitez than anything else imo.

Maybe to you but to me it speaks of my irritation over the way he's went on rather than a dislike for him.

He was pragmatic and defensive, but if you couldn't see control in his systems, if you couldn't see a plan, then I'm afraid you weren't looking hard enough at all.

I did see control in his systems and I also saw a lot of pure luck in his set up, at times.

Benitez got plenty out of players, certainly more out of the centre backs and central midfielders. When RB parked the bus we looked in control of our area and we would successfully kill off a game.

Benitez did get plenty out of his players. I agree on that, but not in the right way, IMO, in terms of harmony...and it showed in a lot of players, because he basically destroyed anything we had as what could be construed as flair players.
His aim was to go out and not lose, rather than to go out and win the game by taking the game to the opposition that we were easily on par with.

When Bruce parks the bus we're reliant on Dubravka having a good game, again.

To be fair, Benitez relied on Dubravka as well and all of his keepers....no different to Bruce in that respect.

We allow far too many shots, far too many opposition passes, far too much possession in dangerous areas.

Yep, I agree but we also did a lot of that under Benitez but with very little flair, unlike what Bruce has been trying to instill for a decent amount of the season.

The outlets that we saw under RB do not exist with SB, despite having players perfectly capable of posing a threat on the counter. It's not even hit and hope, it's get hit and hope.

Nahhh, I disagree.
What we do suffer is the finishing, not the setting up.
The football has been much better to watch under Bruce, barring the odd games which have been dire.

My disdain for Bruce has fuck all to do with his time as Sunderland manager and everything to do with how bang average he is. How bang average he has been for much of his career in the Premier League.

He's no world beater but then again if he's bang average, he's doing ok for being bang average. As good as Benitez was and it took Benitez 3 seasons to stay bang average. Bruce has had under a season and a disrupted one at that.

And if your disdain of him is not due to him managing Sunderland then my post doesn't mean you. It means the some fans, that I mentioned.

If you think football is as simple as 11 lads, jumpers for goalposts, or whatever other reductionist claptrap you spouted, you've totally ignored the way the game has changed.

Football has changed but its been made complicated for such a simple game. It's been turned into scientific mumbo jumbo so punters can sound clever when evaluating the game.
Players asked to be racehorses and to eat certain diets while their entire bodies are subjected to all kinds of manipulations on top of gauges attached to their kit.
And yet, for all this, there's more injuries for longer periods, with some players taking time out for knocks and all kinds of drivel.

Gone is 4-4-2 with a big man/little man combo up front and in come deeper lying forwards who aren't necessarily the main goal scorer. Wingers are playing as inside forwards again. Winning the ball back is every player's responsibility, not just the hatchet-man in the middle. Tiki-Taka, Gegenpress, these aren't just hipster terms, these are tactical set ups that changed the game entirely. Look at Klopp's Liverpool, Guardiola's Barcelona, even Wilder's Shef Utd. They're all making complicated, comprehensive plans for every game, for specific periods or situations in a game.

When you play a team, they have to worry about you, just as much as you have to worry about them.
If you can't cope with their style then make them suffer with your own.
It's almost protocol that managers have to follow suit of set up's in games. It's nonsense on the whole.

If you have two big old fashioned centre forwards in a 4/4/2 then the team you're up against has to cater for that when they're on the back foot.
All this passing around the park works for the elites....if....the wolves are not willing to hound them.
It's a simple game of hard work and simple tactics.

I lose count of the people that shout to others...." oh you know nowt about football." It makes me smirk because we all have our views and we all watch the game and see it how we see it, which is why we all have differing opinions.

 

[Binxy]

Maybe to you but to me it speaks of my irritation over the way he's went on rather than a dislike for him.

I did see control in his systems and I also saw a lot of pure luck in his set up, at times.


Benitez did get plenty out of his players. I agree on that, but not in the right way, IMO, in terms of harmony...and it showed in a lot of players, because he basically destroyed anything we had as what could be construed as flair players.
His aim was to go out and not lose, rather than to go out and win the game by taking the game to the opposition that we were easily on par with.


To be fair, Benitez relied on Dubravka as well and all of his keepers....no different to Bruce in that respect.

Yep, I agree but we also did a lot of that under Benitez but with very little flair, unlike what Bruce has been trying to instill for a decent amount of the season.


Nahhh, I disagree.
What we do suffer is the finishing, not the setting up.
The football has been much better to watch under Bruce, barring the odd games which have been dire.


He's no world beater but then again if he's bang average, he's doing ok for being bang average. As good as Benitez was and it took Benitez 3 seasons to stay bang average. Bruce has had under a season and a disrupted one at that.

And if your disdain of him is not due to him managing Sunderland then my post doesn't mean you. It means the some fans, that I mentioned.

Football has changed but its been made complicated for such a simple game. It's been turned into scientific mumbo jumbo so punters can sound clever when evaluating the game.
Players asked to be racehorses and to eat certain diets while their entire bodies are subjected to all kinds of manipulations on top of gauges attached to their kit.
And yet, for all this, there's more injuries for longer periods, with some players taking time out for knocks and all kinds of drivel.



When you play a team, they have to worry about you, just as much as you have to worry about them.
If you can't cope with their style then make them suffer with your own.
It's almost protocol that managers have to follow suit of set up's in games. It's nonsense on the whole.

If you have two big old fashioned centre forwards in a 4/4/2 then the team you're up against has to cater for that when they're on the back foot.
All this passing around the park works for the elites....if....the wolves are not willing to hound them.
It's a simple game of hard work and simple tactics.

I lose count of the people that shout to others...." oh you know nowt about football." It makes me smirk because we all have our views and we all watch the game and see it how we see it, which is why we all have differing opinions.

Sure you're a mag?

 

[barts45]

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Personally think it will still go through, what exactly it will be like is anyones guess. For me who they appoint or leave in as manager will immediately signal their intentions

We meanwhile are absolutely fucked

 

[Nukehasslefan]

Sure you're a mag?

Aye, all my life. A Hartlepool mag but a mag all the same.
I just try to be as honest as I can from how I see it and how I've dealt with Newcastle fans in debates, which you can imagine how some of those have went.
I like to see the north east do well because this is a region against an onslaught of the rest of the country, generally.
Obviously when we play you lot or Boro, etc....I will naturally have a mild dig, just as I expect the same.

However, I do get bemused with some Newcastle fans for their views and I'll tell it like I see it, just as they do with me and just like some of you lads will against Newcastle and us fans, on here.

Tit for tat in that respect but that's what makes forum chat what it is.

 

[Zak's Dad]

Personally think it will still go through, what exactly it will be like is anyones guess. For me who they appoint or leave in as manager will immediately signal their intentions

We meanwhile are absolutely fucked

Correct, we are so fucked I found this on twitter and posted it as 'light relief' from today's doom and gloom.
Though Reid not getting paid any more for the job he wasn't doing anyway was a bright spot this lunchtime.

 

[Binxy]

Aye, all my life. A Hartlepool mag but a mag all the same.
I just try to be as honest as I can from how I see it and how I've dealt with Newcastle fans in debates, which you can imagine how some of those have went.
I like to see the north east do well because this is a region against an onslaught of the rest of the country, generally.
Obviously when we play you lot or Boro, etc....I will naturally have a mild dig, just as I expect the same.

However, I do get bemused with some Newcastle fans for their views and I'll tell it like I see it, just as they do with me and just like some of you lads will against Newcastle and us fans, on here.

Tit for tat in that respect but that's what makes forum chat what it is.

Fair play.








Oh and fuck off yer dirty gravy guzzler.

 

[mad cyril]

A lot of stuff I disagree with in here, mind.

Your post speaks more of your dislike of Benitez than anything else imo. He was pragmatic and defensive, but if you couldn't see control in his systems, if you couldn't see a plan, then I'm afraid you weren't looking hard enough at all.

Benitez got plenty out of players, certainly more out of the centre backs and central midfielders. When RB parked the bus we looked in control of our area and we would successfully kill off a game. When Bruce parks the bus we're reliant on Dubravka having a good game, again. We allow far too many shots, far too many opposition passes, far too much possession in dangerous areas. The outlets that we saw under RB do not exist with SB, despite having players perfectly capable of posing a threat on the counter. It's not even hit and hope, it's get hit and hope.

My disdain for Bruce has fuck all to do with his time as Sunderland manager and everything to do with how bang average he is. How bang average he has been for much of his career in the Premier League.

If you think football is as simple as 11 lads, jumpers for goalposts, or whatever other reductionist claptrap you spouted, you've totally ignored the way the game has changed. Gone is 4-4-2 with a big man/little man combo up front and in come deeper lying forwards who aren't necessarily the main goal scorer. Wingers are playing as inside forwards again. Winning the ball back is every player's responsibility, not just the hatchet-man in the middle. Tiki-Taka, Gegenpress, these aren't just hipster terms, these are tactical set ups that changed the game entirely. Look at Klopp's Liverpool, Guardiola's Barcelona, even Wilder's Shef Utd. They're all making complicated, comprehensive plans for every game, for specific periods or situations in a game.

The thing with our previous managers tenure which I struggle with, is that it’s reduced a lot of his supporters to resorting to pointless stats and pointless jargon to defend the OK job he did for us.
The rhetoric I’ve seen used of ‘forward plans’, ‘stable progression’ etc is completely pulled out of People’s arses because they can’t handle the fact that Bruce is doing a decent job and certainly no worse than his predecessor. Let’s not forget a lot of the anti Bruce know it all’s we’re nailing him on for relegation which to me instantly dismisses Both their theory and credibility.

One bloke recently talked about Benitez providing ‘stable progression’ despite finishing 3 places lower than his previous campaign. Progression my arse.

For me, I also judge people on their performance with us than what they have done previously in their careers. Dalglish was a league winner / Gullit a cup winner but I didn’t pander to them based on that. I judged them on their time with us which is exactly what I’ll do with Bruce.

I was underwhelmed with Bruce’s appt, but he’s doing an OK job, exactly the same as his predecessor.

Yet Bruce got further in the cup and is doing better in the league, with a weaker side I might add.

Maybe Rafa wasn't all that after all.

of course he wasn’t.

I can only assume you didn’t get the memo about stats now replacing points in what matters.

Aye, all my life. A Hartlepool mag but a mag all the same.
I just try to be as honest as I can from how I see it and how I've dealt with Newcastle fans in debates, which you can imagine how some of those have went.
I like to see the north east do well because this is a region against an onslaught of the rest of the country, generally.
Obviously when we play you lot or Boro, etc....I will naturally have a mild dig, just as I expect the same.

However, I do get bemused with some Newcastle fans for their views and I'll tell it like I see it, just as they do with me and just like some of you lads will against Newcastle and us fans, on here.

Tit for tat in that respect but that's what makes forum chat what it is.

I fully agree, the Benitez love in is Unbelievable considering the job he done with us. It’s impossible to have an objective discussion about his time with us.

 

[The Fish]

How many goals has Almiron contributed too in his career with you?

More than Joelinton.