What are we doing to force Donald out of our club?

[The Professor]

Ideal world we could really do with a statement from FFP, i.e. replying to thr echo's letter even if its as simple as as the right price were interested.

If that came out, then something was organised properly stating the reasons why its being done we force the owners hand along with not concerning potential owner that we will turn on them.

To be fair if any potential owners check our history they can see we simply have not turned on owners, were not like up the road, even Short didnt get any real sh-t.

In large owners come here & are backed, if there honest with us & show clear intentions they are simple. How can anyone disagree with that, SD was backed by majoriy & given benefit of the doubt despite us knowing he didnt have the funds. 32k first season average down here, failed but still close to that second year despite potentially messing up the FFP deal for good. It turned as its clear he is being unreasonable/ unrealistic on the amount hes asking for FAILING TWICE.

No beating around the bush, intentions were whatever, hes cut the bills sorted finance to a level we can cope ishbut in turn fu-ked the academy & our short term future selling off anything of value.

A gain cannot be expected to be made on failing, especially not twice.

 

[chopsfc007]

Its the price of Bali Mumba.

The point is its is our power to stop buying. It may be token but its something we can do

Its irrelevant to them making decisions like that though and always kids that want to buy the shirts etc anyway, don't get me wrong i like the sentiment but i think its irrelevant.

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

Even if you do all that and the whole fan base buys in. It will mean nothing if there is no buyer.

No one will buy a L1 club until it's clear what next season is going to look like.

However, if there are no crowds, it is entirely possible that you find yourself in a restructured Championship. A lot of clubs will go out of business.

There are plenty of people who are potential buyers, Donald has had potential buyers on the scene pretty much since he walked through the door. I grant you that they might be less enthusiastic given the current state of league one but that on its own isn't reason enough not to be at least starting to organise something and put pressure on, and things like suggesting people should take refunds or not buy season cards would need to be done now, you can't do it in October. Lots of people want to discuss buying Sunderland given what should be a low purchase price, a good infrastructure and the potential to make a lot of money if they get it right, it's Donald's unrealistic expectations that are preventing it from being sold.

 

[Red and white TID]

There are plenty of people who are potential buyers, Donald has had potential buyers on the scene pretty much since he walked through the door. I grant you that they might be less enthusiastic given the current state of league one but that on its own isn't reason enough not to be at least starting to organise something and put pressure on, and things like suggesting people should take refunds or not buy season cards would need to be done now, you can't do it in October. Lots of people want to discuss buying Sunderland given what should be a low purchase price, a good infrastructure and the potential to make a lot of money if they get it right, it's Donald's unrealistic expectations that are preventing it from being sold.

Really good piece expect I would change the words unrealistic expectations to greed

 

[chopsfc007]

There are plenty of people who are potential buyers, Donald has had potential buyers on the scene pretty much since he walked through the door. I grant you that they might be less enthusiastic given the current state of league one but that on its own isn't reason enough not to be at least starting to organise something and put pressure on, and things like suggesting people should take refunds or not buy season cards would need to be done now, you can't do it in October. Lots of people want to discuss buying Sunderland given what should be a low purchase price, a good infrastructure and the potential to make a lot of money if they get it right, it's Donald's unrealistic expectations that are preventing it from being sold.

We have no idea how many, who, or details of any potential new owners plans or how much they were prepared to pay etc

 

[1more]

Its irrelevant to them making decisions like that though and always kids that want to buy the shirts etc anyway, don't get me wrong i like the sentiment but i think its irrelevant.

Still am example of voting with your feet

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

We have no idea how many, who, or details of any potential new owners plans or how much they were prepared to pay etc

I know theres been a few. Enough to know that "you need a buyer first" isn't a good argument, there's been plenty of potential buyers. Hell everyone knows about Campbell (who I admit didn't sound great like) and FPP. There's been plenty of reports of them asking for a hell of a lot more than they paid and looking to make a big profit for a pretty dreadful performance. The bit I'd agree with you on is that we haven't really seen any concrete plans from these potential buyers, but I've seen enough of Donald's plan (such as it is) to know that there's bound to be better out there

 

[chopsfc007]

I know theres been a few. Enough to know that "you need a buyer first" isn't a good argument, there's been plenty of potential buyers. Hell everyone knows about Campbell (who I admit didn't sound great like) and FPP. There's been plenty of reports of them asking for a hell of a lot more than they paid and looking to make a big profit for a pretty dreadful performance. The bit I'd agree with you on is that we haven't really seen any concrete plans from these potential buyers, but I've seen enough of Donald's plan (such as it is) to know that there's bound to be better out there

I think if fpp were that bothered they would have got us already but maybe im being naive, i just don't think people not buying merchandise or season tickets will make much difference

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

So far we have the power to do the below

Stop buying season tickets
Get your refunds
Dont buy any merchandise including new tops
#DonaldOut twitter campaign
Put pressure of local media
Try and force a franzine to start a campaign
Join RAWA and voice concerns with them about the running of the club

Any other ideas?

I think the key is the clarity of what we are angry about. Just being abusive about Parky or whatever does nothing. We need a some consistency regarding our understandable grievances.

For me the grievances are as follows and we need key, detailed responses:

• They have sold of a whole generation of talent that joined the club way before they did. We know we could have kept some of them but chose not to. They were the ones who mentioned the Dortmund model and doing the opposite. So this needs constantly pushing their way - how much have they made, where has that money gone, what is their strategy for future young talent coming into the first team? We will suffer from this tragic short termism long after they have gone.
• They used the parachute payments to buy the club - there needs to be complete transparency on this - not just Donald whining that 'he's not a chancer'. They say they will/are paying this back - again there needs to transparency and explanation why it was taken out of the accounts.
• The U18's/U23's were an utter embarrassment last year - the Head of the Academy is a previous employee of theirs as are many in the club. He is badly failing in his job - what are his targets? Are their consequences for his poor performance.
• Methven, who bizarrely is a PR Professional, has repeatedly slagged off the fans - they same fans who created records for attendance in support of the regime.
• Their handling of Season Tickets/Refunds has been appalling and is the final straw for many.

There may be others but, in my view, we need a clear voice rather than twitter abuse. We want new owners because they come across as liars and are doing long term damage to the club not because we don't like Phil Parkinson. For that reason I would support the idea of getting behind RAWA and trying to get consistency in what we think is unacceptable.

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

I think if fpp were that bothered they would have got us already but maybe im being naive, i just don't think people not buying merchandise or season tickets will make much difference

In theory it should (certainly the season ticket bit). It's our main revenue stream. If the club makes losses then, in theory, as happened with Short, the owners would need to fund them. It's very likely that Donald has neither the desire nor the funds to do that for a long period. If he thought "shit, I might have to fund £3m a year here" then it might make him think twice about hanging on, hoping for an unrealistic profit, since all the while it would be costing him money with no guarantee he'd get the money he wants later.

The only concern I've had about it is what he might do in that situation. That's why I'd love a decent potential buyer to actually signal their intentions, state they want to buy the club but can't currently reach an agreement. Its probably unlikely that would ever happen, but if someone like FPP did so then at least we'd have a clear target. Whether they're still interested is an unknown but if they had no interest at all they wouldn't have even given the loan. The worry about them is that I think they wanted a Sunderland in the championship with a good management team running it, instead they've got none of that and it would now be a major job, especially for people who wouldn't be able to be involved day to day.

 

[Deleted member 30053]

For me the only thing that will get reaction from them is a well thought out “Not a penny more” campaign that has the backing of fans groups and fanzines. We are fully aware of their greed. Hitting them on their pockets is the only way. Continuing to buy tickets and merchandise is simply enabling them. It’s inevitable that if this occurs they’ll be coming out blaming fans for not spending money so yet again we’ll see them for what they are. Emphasis needs to be placed on the fact that once they are gone financial support - in the form of season ticket and merchandise purchases - will again be encouraged by fans (after we know what’s happening with Covid etc). The “you don’t speak for me” lot will of course reappear but surely in much smaller numbers than the Donald Out campaign.

 

[1more]

I think the key is the clarity of what we are angry about. Just being abusive about Parky or whatever does nothing. We need a some consistency regarding our understandable grievances.

For me the grievances are as follows and we need key, detailed responses:

• They have sold of a whole generation of talent that joined the club way before they did. We know we could have kept some of them but chose not to. They were the ones who mentioned the Dortmund model and doing the opposite. So this needs constantly pushing their way - how much have they made, where has that money gone, what is their strategy for future young talent coming into the first team? We will suffer from this tragic short termism long after they have gone.
• They used the parachute payments to buy the club - there needs to be complete transparency on this - not just Donald whining that 'he's not a chancer'. They say they will/are paying this back - again there needs to transparency and explanation why it was taken out of the accounts.
• The U18's/U23's were an utter embarrassment last year - the Head of the Academy is a previous employee of theirs as are many in the club. He is badly failing in his job - what are his targets? Are their consequences for his poor performance.
• Methven, who bizarrely is a PR Professional, has repeatedly slagged off the fans - they same fans who created records for attendance in support of the regime.
• Their handling of Season Tickets/Refunds has been appalling and is the final straw for many.

There may be others but, in my view, we need a clear voice rather than twitter abuse. We want new owners because they come across as liars and are doing long term damage to the club not because we don't like Phil Parkinson. For that reason I would support the idea of getting behind RAWA and trying to get consistency in what we think is unacceptable.

Great points well made. Need to get these into the open with pressure on the club to respond.

 

[Wayne The Punk]

For me the only thing that will get reaction from them is a well thought out “Not a penny more” campaign that has the backing of fans groups and fanzines. We are fully aware of their greed. Hitting them on their pockets is the only way. Continuing to buy tickets and merchandise is simply enabling them. It’s inevitable that if this occurs they’ll be coming out blaming fans for not spending money so yet again we’ll see them for what they are. Emphasis needs to be placed on the fact that once they are gone financial support - in the form of season ticket and merchandise purchases - will again be encouraged by fans (after we know what’s happening with Covid etc). The “you don’t speak for me” lot will of course reappear but surely in much smaller numbers than the Donald Out campaign.

This, not enough likes, Not a penny more, that will still see the f***ing wankers sit tight, they disgust me.

 

[Confucius]

That’s the problem with Sunderland, there are some great words being typed here, just look the thread. However it’s those voices being heard or those words being read. I’ve said before the gloves are off, they are taking the piss. The fanzines need to listen to the likes of @Guinness Guzzler, @10 Gary Rowells plus many more and get some movement going, even if it’s just getting some column inches in the news papers. There must be someone else in the media who can assist. I really wouldn’t have a clue where to start, but am willing to get involved
It isn’t “mag like”, it’s a demonstration that fans are disgusted with the way these people have handled things, the direction of the club and it’s also a clear indication of the passion. It’s either that or be mackem like and just sit on your hands whilst the club folds around you. They are inflicting pain on us and we just take it, Sadomackemism if you like.

 

[1more]

That’s the problem with Sunderland, there are some great words being typed here, just look the thread. However it’s those voices being heard or those words being read. I’ve said before the gloves are off, they are taking the piss. The fanzines need to listen to the likes of @Guinness Guzzler, @10 Gary Rowells plus many more and get some movement going, even if it’s just getting some column inches in the news papers. There must be someone else in the media who can assist. I really wouldn’t have a clue where to start, but am willing to get involved
It isn’t “mag like”, it’s a demonstration that fans are disgusted with the way these people have handled things, the direction of the club and it’s also a clear indication of the passion. It’s either that or be mackem like and just sit on your hands whilst the club folds around you. They are inflicting pain on us and we just take it, Sadomackemism if you like.

I hope @10 Gary Rowells doesnt mind but I've just forwarded his comments on an email to the Echo. More should do the same, get some pressure building on the media to in turn build pressure on the club

 

[Gobuchul]

There must be someone else in the media who can assist. I really wouldn’t have a clue where to start, but am willing to get involved

The obvious place would be the radio shows. Total Sport hardly gets any callers, you could easily get on there. Then there is 606 and Talk Sport.

Call Stewie out and see if he will go on Total Sport. Simon Pryde was pretty tough with him last time. Had him squirming.

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

That’s the problem with Sunderland, there are some great words being typed here, just look the thread. However it’s those voices being heard or those words being read. I’ve said before the gloves are off, they are taking the piss. The fanzines need to listen to the likes of @Guinness Guzzler, @10 Gary Rowells plus many more and get some movement going, even if it’s just getting some column inches in the news papers. There must be someone else in the media who can assist. I really wouldn’t have a clue where to start, but am willing to get involved
It isn’t “mag like”, it’s a demonstration that fans are disgusted with the way these people have handled things, the direction of the club and it’s also a clear indication of the passion. It’s either that or be mackem like and just sit on your hands whilst the club folds around you. They are inflicting pain on us and we just take it, Sadomackemism if you like.

There's certainly nothing mag like about a well organised, sensible protest. I want to see us avoid mock funerals and shop shouting as much as the next fan, but that doesn't mean we do nothing.

The best thing people can do is ask the question of the fanzines, what are they doing about it? Any protest will be more successful if there is an organiser; more individuals will join in, more media will be interested in discussing it and the owners will know it's an actual protest and not just people sick of watching third tier football.

By issuing the statement, the fanzines came together and said #DonaldOut. The timing was questionable, but we were at a very low ebb and most were supportive of it as far as I could tell (other than the thousands who wrote letters to Charlie of course). That should have been a first step though, since then Donald has said he'll sell but now has gone suspiciously quiet about it (including Rodwell saying off air that he doesn't expect a sale). We're still flogging academy products, we're still hiring his mates to key positions, we're still f***ing up major things like season card renewals, still taking forever to sort refunds out. I get that Covid is a major issue, but there's still decisions taken, and poor communication, that simply shouldn't be happening.

I would have expected that one of the fanzines by now, or all as a group, would have escalated this somehow. They're all still publishing articles that are very scathing of the owners, almost daily, but there's nothing beyond that. I've said before that I don't think RAWA should lead on it, there was a lot of criticism last time for their name being added without asking their members (criticism which I agreed with). A fanzine can do it easily, they don't represent anyone but themselves. If they started a protest campaign then RAWA could decide to hold a vote of their members and potentially join it, and would then have a mandate for doing so.

So for the average fan, I think the best option is to start writing in to the fanzines. Mention that they made their Donald out statement, that things have got worse, that he doesn't seem to be doing anything to facilitate a sale and is making decisions that look like he doesn't expect / want one, state that as a fan they'd support a protest and ask if their fanzine, or the fanzines as a group, are considering organising one with clear objectives and grievances similar to the list that @10 Gary Rowells wrote. Before long everyone will have decided whether to renew, they'll likely have bought the merchandise for their kids, by and large the chance to have an impactful protest will have been lost for a year. Hopefully they are considering organising something, because otherwise we're very, very easy to ignore

 

[Confucius]

The obvious place would be the radio shows. Total Sport hardly gets any callers, you could easily get on there. Then there is 606 and Talk Sport.

Call Stewie out and see if he will go on Total Sport. Simon Pryde was pretty tough with him last time. Had him squirming.

Cheers gobby, now I am a fairly educated man who has a senior management role and I actually argue for a living. However whenever football comes into the equation, all etiquette goes out of the window. Me shouting “fuck off Donald, you crooked prick”, will probably get me banned from, so I tend to stay away from those situations.

 

[Hot Since 82]

I’ve taken the refund & also cancelled my season ticket card.

Hopefully that sends a message.

When did it become possible to claim the 19/20 refund (assuming that's what you're referring to)?

 

[Confucius]

There's certainly nothing mag like about a well organised, sensible protest. I want to see us avoid mock funerals and shop shouting as much as the next fan, but that doesn't mean we do nothing.

The best thing people can do is ask the question of the fanzines, what are they doing about it? Any protest will be more successful if there is an organiser; more individuals will join in, more media will be interested in discussing it and the owners will know it's an actual protest and not just people sick of watching third tier football.

By issuing the statement, the fanzines came together and said #DonaldOut. The timing was questionable, but we were at a very low ebb and most were supportive of it as far as I could tell (other than the thousands who wrote letters to Charlie of course). That should have been a first step though, since then Donald has said he'll sell but now has gone suspiciously quiet about it (including Rodwell saying off air that he doesn't expect a sale). We're still flogging academy products, we're still hiring his mates to key positions, we're still f***ing up major things like season card renewals, still taking forever to sort refunds out. I get that Covid is a major issue, but there's still decisions taken, and poor communication, that simply shouldn't be happening.

I would have expected that one of the fanzines by now, or all as a group, would have escalated this somehow. They're all still publishing articles that are very scathing of the owners, almost daily, but there's nothing beyond that. I've said before that I don't think RAWA should lead on it, there was a lot of criticism last time for their name being added without asking their members (criticism which I agreed with). A fanzine can do it easily, they don't represent anyone but themselves. If they started a protest campaign then RAWA could decide to hold a vote of their members and potentially join it, and would then have a mandate for doing so.

So for the average fan, I think the best option is to start writing in to the fanzines. Mention that they made their Donald out statement, that things have got worse, that he doesn't seem to be doing anything to facilitate a sale and is making decisions that look like he doesn't expect / want one, state that as a fan they'd support a protest and ask if their fanzine, or the fanzines as a group, are considering organising one with clear objectives and grievances similar to the list that @10 Gary Rowells wrote. Before long everyone will have decided whether to renew, they'll likely have bought the merchandise for their kids, by and large the chance to have an impactful protest will have been lost for a year. Hopefully they are considering organising something, because otherwise we're very, very easy to ignore

I don’t normally read long posts cos I don’t have the attention span And now I wished I hadn’t read yours. No, no, not because it was shite, it was brilliant (as it usually is), but I wasn’t aware that Rodwell Resurrection: 2020, had actually uttered those words off air. f***ing hell, I actually do hate Stewart Donald