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A very powerful moment in British sport

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Father Jack Hackett said:
Whilst simultaneously taking money for coverage from a regime where 40-odd people have died building world cup stadiums as part of slave labour and are considering accepting one of the worst regimes of the last century with regards to human rights as owners of our friends up the road.
Not to mention the hosts of tonight game being owned by a not particularly progressive bunch of lads, broadcast by a company owned by an organisation that has a publication that was behind Hitler in the 1930s, not to mention the long-standing Ford sponsorship of the coverage. Old Henry loved all colours, creeds and religions.

It gave me a real warm feeling inside knowing the Premier League were behind such a cause.
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I was alluding to the saudi question father
 

Blackness said:
To summarise then..
"Some people are not racist.
Other people are racist.
Therefore non-racists should not disagree with racists."
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Black Lives Matter refer to themselves as a political movement.

For everyone that feels BLM is not political I have a few questions that are innately 'political'

Lets take the example of black managers in football. I use this example as it runs parallel with many other issues of alleged 'inequality' amongst some institutional areas of our state, in particular education and the justice system.

We have a stark shortage of black managers. Statistically they are hugely under represented within the game. One may conclude that these statistics point to institutional racism. Just like statistics on prison population, stop and search, school exclusions and Oxbridge places.

If we take black managers as our case study then we need to find some compelling inconsistencies between the treatment of black and white managers. If we can't then we need to consider other causation. If we conclude that these statistics are a result of institutional racism then how do we redress these disparities...

- interview quotas for black managers?
- immunity from sacking for black managers?
- incentives for black managers?

How do we go about making the statistics look better? A lot of the claims of institutional racism are founded on statistical disparity.

Should we stop arresting black people?
Should we stop excluding black children from school?
Should we avoid stop and search in black areas, even when these areas have a higher incidence of knife crime?

If the statistics are the problem then how do we redress the balance?

Everytime evidence for institutional racism is mentioned it comes back to statistics. My issue with the whole question of institutional racism is the refusal for communities to ask themselves why a disproportionate number of black men end up in prison or why a disproportionate number of black teenagers are excluded. I look forward to being called racist by those who don't know where to twist.
 
I wish we didn't have to rely on f***ing footballers to have to address govt legislature but it seems we reallly f***ing do

so while we rely on one 22 yr old footballer to ensure children get fed in the next few months

yes I think it totally f***ing appropriate that footballers try and do something worthwhile with their f***ing power in social change

segregation in Ireland was upheld through sport (ecstasy kind of shat all over that and now they can't segregate so deliberately with sport)
South Africa was broken through sport
Rome was kept with bread and games, like football for us now it seems
 
CatRyan said:
I wish we didn't have to rely on f***ing footballers to have to address govt legislature but it seems we reallly f***ing do

so while we rely on one 22 yr old footballer to ensure children get fed in the next few months

yes I think it totally f***ing appropriate that footballers try and do something worthwhile with their f***ing power in social change

segregation in Ireland was upheld through sport (ecstasy kind of shat all over that and now they can't segregate so deliberately with sport)
South Africa was broken through sport
Rome was kept with bread and games, like football for us now it seems
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But Guardiola coming out and saying "we" should be ashamed about the last 400 years when he is taking (at this very moment in time) vast amounts of money from a regime whose human rights record (including the use of slave labour) is appalling smacks of hypocrisy at best.
 
CatRyan said:
I wish we didn't have to rely on f***ing footballers to have to address govt legislature but it seems we reallly f***ing do

so while we rely on one 22 yr old footballer to ensure children get fed in the next few months

yes I think it totally f***ing appropriate that footballers try and do something worthwhile with their f***ing power in social change

segregation in Ireland was upheld through sport (ecstasy kind of shat all over that and now they can't segregate so deliberately with sport)
South Africa was broken through sport
Rome was kept with bread and games, like football for us now it seems
Click to expand...
Can you tone down your language please.
 
Father Jack Hackett said:
But Guardiola coming out and saying "we" should be ashamed about the last 400 years when he is taking (at this very moment in time) vast amounts of money from a regime whose human rights record (including the use of slave labour) is appalling smacks of hypocrisy at best.
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what is wrong with you?

Guardiola is Spanish.... they wiped out whole peoples
The British are not far behind
Whites as a whole have f***ing done terrible shit, in particular to people who were not white

I'm not sure I understand your issue with any of this or what you think he is saying or why you think he shouldn't say it

so I'm just going to re re wind and ask you to explain your position more fully
Ready salted said:
Can you tone down your language please.
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if you provide adequate reason I just may do
 
sambantam82 said:
Looking forward to the absolute sh*t storm thats coming the next time any team or individual is told that they are not allowed to make any political statement. They've set a precedent.
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You understand though don't you, that this was the overall aim? He wasn't doing it so he could do it on his own?

And actually, this wasn't the aim either. This is one of the first steps on the track towards giving people what they should get anyway.
 
CatRyan said:
what is wrong with you?

Guardiola is Spanish.... they wiped out whole peoples
The British are not far behind
Whites as a whole have f***ing done terrible shit, in particular to people who were not white

I'm not sure I understand your issue with any of this or what you think he is saying or why you think he shouldn't say it

so I'm just going to re re wind and ask you to explain your position more fully



if you provide adequate reason I just may do
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What is wrong with me? Of course I know of the Spanish involvement in Slavery, along with the Dutch, the Portuguese and ourselves, they profited massively from it.
However, he is accepting huge amounts of money from people who are still doing it. Therefore, is he that much better than the traders in Liverpool or Bristol docks who profited from the spoils of slave labour in the 19th century?
Abu Dhabi are still party to enforced labour of migrant workers now, at this moment in time.
 
I have no problem with people getting behind a cause like this. It is correct and undoubtedly an issue that needs addressing throughout the world.

However, tonight I wanted to watch football. I wanted to hear the pundits talk about football. Nothing but football. We haven't had it for months. All we have had is the pandemic and protests, if I want to hear about them again I'll put sky news on. Not sky sports.

Yes football should highlight it, but no more. Football is football. It is entertainment ffs.
 
Father Jack Hackett said:
What is wrong with me? Of course I know of the Spanish involvement in Slavery, along with the Dutch, the Portuguese and ourselves, they profited massively from it.
However, he is accepting huge amounts of money from people who are still doing it. Therefore, is he that much better than the traders in Liverpool or Bristol docks who profited from the spoils of slave labour in the 19th century?
Abu Dhabi are still party to enforced labour of migrant workers now, at this moment in time.
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right, see I'm glad I asked you to explain further

I don't think this is so polarised, I think Guardiola is right to speak out but I also agree that he should look to his own pay packet and who is paying it

we are not allowed to really do business with people deemed "naughty" by the US, that's the long and the short of it and it is a ball ache too as some of their naughty people are just people... anyway it would be good, seeing as we have such a trenchantly observed list in place to broaden that to include as you say slavers etc

we can totally f***ing do it, logistically

the only thing stopping it is the backlash financially, mainly on rich people
wev17 said:
I have no problem with people getting behind a cause like this. It is correct and undoubtedly an issue that needs addressing throughout the world.

However, tonight I wanted to watch football. I wanted to hear the pundits talk about football. Nothing but football. We haven't had it for months. All we have had is the pandemic and protests, if I want to hear about them again I'll put sky news on. Not sky sports.

Yes football should highlight it, but no more. Football is football. It is entertainment ffs.
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it isn't just entertainment

it is absoultely a social mainstay, it is a powerful political weapon
 
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CatRyan said:
right, see I'm glad I asked you to explain further

I don't think this is so polarised, I think Guardiola is right to speak out but I also agree that he should look to his own pay packet and who is paying it

we are not allowed to really do business with people deemed "naughty" by the US, that's the long and the short of it and it is a ball ache too as some of their naughty people are just people... anyway it would be good, seeing as we have such a trenchantly observed list in place to broaden that to include as you say slavers etc

we can totally f***ing do it, logistically

the only thing stopping it is the backlash financially, mainly on rich people

it isn't just entertainment

it is absoultely a social mainstay, it is a powerful political weapon
Click to expand...

I agree with it and, if it spreads awareness and good will then fantastic. Its just the fact that people are looking back when nothing can be done about things other than learn from them but exactly the same is happening in various parts of the world and we all just turn a blind eye because we (the West) profit from those doing it.
 
Father Jack Hackett said:
I agree with it and, if it spreads awareness and good will then fantastic. Its just the fact that people are looking back when nothing can be done about things other than learn from them but exactly the same is happening in various parts of the world and we all just turn a blind eye because we (the West) profit from those doing it.
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no, now you're wrong there

it is not just looking back with no point

it is acknowledging the wrongs done to others, those that have no voice or ability to stand up for themselves, now that is important, so important

it feeds the future that we need to see affecting real change

also in support of Guardiola it is not he whom is without sin that should cast the first stone or shut up... none of us are perfect, especially regarding our pay masters but he has a voice and it is essential that those with privilege take a stand, or a knee or make a statement because that is where change is brought

no one would have listened to a mother who couldn't feed her children, but they listen to Rashford
no one would listen to Irish Catholics asking that they not be fucked so bad, it took the Protestants and the English who had a voice to bring about effective change

this is a bitter pill to swallow

Guardiola has a voice and I do believe a good heart, he is trying to address an actual issue that needs to be addressed, he doesn't have to be immaculate to do so

it is like when people expect socialists to be poor and ill kempt and shit, otherwise they aren't "proper" socialists... that is ludicrous

this is not the ascetic age, we don't have to run off to live on a pillar in the desert to lend weight to our words, you can be a regular human type person and still have a voice
 
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CatRyan said:
it isn't just entertainment

it is absoultely a social mainstay, it is a powerful political weapon
Click to expand...

Football will not change racism in this country. Football getting more black managers or more black people in the boardroom will do nothing do nothing to tackle systemic racism throughout normal society, will do nothing to help the oppurtunies for black kids in inner cities.

Society has to change racism, not football.
 
CatRyan said:
no, now you're wrong there

it is not just looking back with no point

it is acknowledging the wrongs done to others, those that have no voice or ability to stand up for themselves, now that is important, so important

it feeds the future that we need to see affecting real change

also in support of Guardiola it is not he whom is without sin that should cast the first stone or shut up... none of us are perfect, especially regarding our pay masters but he has a voice and it is essential that those with privilege take a stand, or a knee or make a statement because that is where change is brought

no one would have listened to a mother who couldn't feed her children, but they listen to Rashford
no one would listen to Irish Catholics asking that they not be fucked so bad, it took the Protestants and the English who had a voice to bring about effective change

this is a bitter pill to swallow

Guardiola has a voice and I do believe a good heart, he is trying to address an actual issue that needs to be addressed, he doesn't have to be immaculate to do so

it is like when people expect socialists to be poor and ill kempt and shit, otherwise they aren't "proper" socialists... that is ludicrous

this is not the ascetic age, we don't have to run off to live on a pillar in the desert to lend weight to our words, you can be a regular human type person and still have a voice
Click to expand...

I did say we should.kesen from the past mind. I meant, it can't be changed but the present can, with knowledge gleaned from the past.
 
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