June to July 2020 - NUFC

[leerik_canamole]

Whatever makes you feel better after the 6 in a row

This

What a whopper trying to claim that them being shit lead to our downfall. f***ing heard it all now

We should be grateful that, in order to rescue his investment he allowed the club to make the signings it needed to? When he doesn't allow the same freedoms when the club is in a postion of strength? Haddaway and shite.



I believe the fans had an influence, yes. I think it's churlish to suggest otherwise. I also believe Benitez saw that Newcastle United could achieve more than mere survival in the Premier League and that he wanted to be the man to deliver on that potential. I don't doubt Benitez has had offers, but he took the one that gives him control and resources and a massive salary. Fair play to him.


That's an oversimplification of why we ended up 5th, entirely disregarding the rest of the teams who'd normally have finished higher having bad seasons, unreal purple patch for our strike force, but whatever. I've no problem with finding good players to fit the system from undervalued leagues (Cabaye/Tiote). I do have a problem with buying players based on their resale value, regardless of the team's needs (Thauvin, Cabella, Marveaux, Saivet, de Jong, de Jong, Riviere, Ferreyra, Doumbia). Fwiw, the best business model is to produce your own players to fund, or form, the first team.


You're confusing a club organised day to welcome the french players with the fans demanding french players. The fans wanted what all fans want, the best for their club.
Signing players that don't fit the team, or the way the manager plays is folly and leads to relegation, twice. We're still doing it to this day; Steve Bruce plays a low block, with little pressing, yet we've signed Joelinton. A pressing forward who is not a goalscorer or a targetman. It's a total waste of £40m. £40m that could have been spent on Rondon and a good central midfielder/fullback/other striker.

I'm stating, again, that a club should buy players to improve the first team, where the first team needs improving. Newcastle United got into European competition and made a solitary permanent signing despite the clear and obvious need for depth to handle the added fixtures. Newcastle had an excellent striker and let him leave for £7m rather than give him a decent contract. Newcastle had a top class manager and let him leave because he wanted more control over transfers, like not signing a goalshy forward for £40m!

Ashley doesn't care about finishing 5th or 17th, he just wants Newcastle United to be a Premier League side. He doesn't care if the manager can take us forward, as long as he doesn't get us relegated (buhbuh Benitez tuk yiz dowun hurr hurr).


Right, so if the consensus is that Ashley has been bad for Newcastle United, why is he defended so staunchly on here? There are users naming themselves AshleyIn. If he's so good, why in the world would a Sunderland fan want him to stay? Surely, surely, you'd want the worst possible owner for Newcastle to employ the worst possible manager to buy the worst possible players for the worst possible team?

Who the fuck is going to read all that.

How obsessed man to go to those lengths. Totally embarrassing

 

[Squat]

Wasn't born then binxy lad so doesn't count

also it was a different game back then. Considering who we got right on the gravy train in a big way when the PL started then yeah we should have used that upward trajectory to stay at the top


Can't argue with that. The waiter was a disgrace in the cups like

you got on that gravy train through massive debt, mortgaging the club to almost extinction. unsustainable, hence ashley bailing you out. any club could have done that but didnt.

 

[The Fish]

Whatever makes you feel better after the 6 in a row

I can think of 40 odd things...

This

What a whopper trying to claim that them being shit lead to our downfall. f***ing heard it all now

Who the fuck is going to read all that.

How obsessed man to go to those lengths. Totally embarrassing

What about the post I was quoting? How do you grade that in terms of obsession and embarrassment?

you got on that gravy train through massive debt, mortgaging the club to almost extinction. unsustainable, hence ashley bailing you out. any club could have done that but didnt.

Plenty of clubs did.

 

[Squat]

I can think of 40 odd things...

What about the post I was quoting? How do you grade that in terms of obsession and embarrassment?

Plenty of clubs did.

I guess I’ll have to sign up to these clubs message boards to see if they are going on about deserving to be challenging at the top like you lot.

 

[Deleted member 1169]

Neither are we European heavyweights like Liverpool who you mentioned.
Your point was if Newcastle fans spent more we'd be better off. Sunderland fans spending a tenner a game are surely equally to blame for their plight? Especially when the club became more reliant on gate receipts once out of the top flight

Your mate Fitzgerald thinks you are.

My point about fans being to blame was tongue in cheek. But I am glad you agree it is quite a striking statistic when compared to the top-6. The financial situation is even more depressing for Sunderland. But then again, we are not moaning about a benevolent owner who had (blah blah, you know the rest).

 

[BigPete]

This

What a whopper trying to claim that them being shit lead to our downfall. f***ing heard it all now

Who the fuck is going to read all that.

How obsessed man to go to those lengths. Totally embarrassing

I dont know why he wastes his time the mad bastard.

At least hes not googling long words pretending to be something hes not anymore.

 

[The Fish]

I guess I’ll have to sign up to these clubs message boards to see if they are going on about deserving to be challenging at the top like you lot.

Crack on. It'll broaden your mind.

 

[Super Ted]

We should be grateful that, in order to rescue his investment he allowed the club to make the signings it needed to? When he doesn't allow the same freedoms when the club is in a postion of strength? Haddaway and shite.



I believe the fans had an influence, yes. I think it's churlish to suggest otherwise. I also believe Benitez saw that Newcastle United could achieve more than mere survival in the Premier League and that he wanted to be the man to deliver on that potential. I don't doubt Benitez has had offers, but he took the one that gives him control and resources and a massive salary. Fair play to him.


That's an oversimplification of why we ended up 5th, entirely disregarding the rest of the teams who'd normally have finished higher having bad seasons, unreal purple patch for our strike force, but whatever. I've no problem with finding good players to fit the system from undervalued leagues (Cabaye/Tiote). I do have a problem with buying players based on their resale value, regardless of the team's needs (Thauvin, Cabella, Marveaux, Saivet, de Jong, de Jong, Riviere, Ferreyra, Doumbia). Fwiw, the best business model is to produce your own players to fund, or form, the first team.


You're confusing a club organised day to welcome the french players with the fans demanding french players. The fans wanted what all fans want, the best for their club.
Signing players that don't fit the team, or the way the manager plays is folly and leads to relegation, twice. We're still doing it to this day; Steve Bruce plays a low block, with little pressing, yet we've signed Joelinton. A pressing forward who is not a goalscorer or a targetman. It's a total waste of £40m. £40m that could have been spent on Rondon and a good central midfielder/fullback/other striker.

I'm stating, again, that a club should buy players to improve the first team, where the first team needs improving. Newcastle United got into European competition and made a solitary permanent signing despite the clear and obvious need for depth to handle the added fixtures. Newcastle had an excellent striker and let him leave for £7m rather than give him a decent contract. Newcastle had a top class manager and let him leave because he wanted more control over transfers, like not signing a goalshy forward for £40m!

Ashley doesn't care about finishing 5th or 17th, he just wants Newcastle United to be a Premier League side. He doesn't care if the manager can take us forward, as long as he doesn't get us relegated (buhbuh Benitez tuk yiz dowun hurr hurr).


Right, so if the consensus is that Ashley has been bad for Newcastle United, why is he defended so staunchly on here? There are users naming themselves AshleyIn. If he's so good, why in the world would a Sunderland fan want him to stay? Surely, surely, you'd want the worst possible owner for Newcastle to employ the worst possible manager to buy the worst possible players for the worst possible team?

I believe the fans had an influence, yes. I think it's churlish to suggest otherwise. I also believe Benitez saw that Newcastle United could achieve more than mere survival in the Premier League and that he wanted to be the man to deliver on that potential. I don't doubt Benitez has had offers, but he took the one that gives him control and resources and a massive salary. Fair play to him.

Newcastle didn't just merley survive under Benitez though, you finished 10th in your first season back in the Premiership finishing 8 points clear of relegation. FWIW you finished closer to 7th than relegated. Also, by the same logic of 'merely' surviving, should the ownership of Bournemouth, Burnley, Southampton and Brighton all be questioned as they all finished below you last season? or you can add Palace, Watford and West Ham to that from your first season back in the Premiership?

That's an oversimplification of why we ended up 5th, entirely disregarding the rest of the teams who'd normally have finished higher having bad seasons, unreal purple patch for our strike force, but whatever. I've no problem with finding good players to fit the system from undervalued leagues (Cabaye/Tiote). I do have a problem with buying players based on their resale value, regardless of the team's needs (Thauvin, Cabella, Marveaux, Saivet, de Jong, de Jong, Riviere, Ferreyra, Doumbia). Fwiw, the best business model is to produce your own players to fund, or form, the first team.

An oversimplification of why you finished 5th You finished 5th because you were the 5th best side in the division that season you tit. Do people discredit Leicesters winning season because other teams were 'having bad seasons'. You have very little evidence to suggest your players are brought in purely for the resale value. Out of the players you listed above :-

Thauvin bought for 16.5M, Sold for 9M
Cabella bought for 9M, Loaned to Marseile, later sold for 7M
Marveaux bought on a free, Released following a loan at Guingamp
Saviet bought for 5.4M, Loaned out
De Jong bought for 7M, Sold for 2M
The other De Jong was just on loan
Riviere brought in for 5.6M, Loaned out
Doumbia was brought in on loan

So actually, every single plyayer that you listed above that was brought in for their 'resale value' (which is purely your opinion), none of which, were sold for any profit whatsoever.

I agree about the best business model producing to either fund or form the first team. Carroll brought in 35M which was cracking business. You have the two Longstaff brothers who look promising, granted one maybe leaving (paper talk for the time being)

I'm stating, again, that a club should buy players to improve the first team, where the first team needs improving. Newcastle United got into European competition and made a solitary permanent signing despite the clear and obvious need for depth to handle the added fixtures. Newcastle had an excellent striker and let him leave for £7m rather than give him a decent contract. Newcastle had a top class manager and let him leave because he wanted more control over transfers, like not signing a goalshy forward for £40m!

I mentioned in the thread earlier that you didn't bring many players in following the qualification for the Europa League, however you didn't lose many either. It was a solid enough squad got to the QFs of the European Cup.

Are you suggesting that Demba Ba would have stayed at Newcastle even if he had been offered a new deal? (unsure if he was offered one or not), but open your eyes, he went to Chelsea and was playing in the Champions League for fucksakes.

Right, so if the consensus is that Ashley has been bad for Newcastle United, why is he defended so staunchly on here? There are users naming themselves AshleyIn. If he's so good, why in the world would a Sunderland fan want him to stay? Surely, surely, you'd want the worst possible owner for Newcastle to employ the worst possible manager to buy the worst possible players for the worst possible team?

I am not a fan of MIke Ashley in general, but he isn't half as bad as you lot make out. Put it this way, If we had Ashley we wouldn't be sitting in League One.

 

[AndyH]

Fuck me there is some amount of google work going into some of these posts

 

[Super Ted]

Fuck me there is some amount of google work going into some of these posts

Aye, it might make you all shut the fuck up and go elsewhere because it proves what you constantly bleat on about is utter shite.

 

[What A Waster]

Newcastle didn't just merley survive under Benitez though, you finished 13th in your first season back in the Premiership finishing 8 points clear of relegation. FWIW you finished closer to 8th than relegated. Also, by the same logic of 'merely' surviving, should the ownership of Bournemouth, Burnley, Southampton and Brighton all be questioned as they all finished below you last season?



An oversimplification of why you finished 5th You finished 5th because you were the 5th best side in the division that season you tit. Do people discredit Leicesters winning season because other teams were 'having bad seasons'. You have very little evidence to suggest your players are brought in purely for the resale value. Out of the players you listed above :-

Thauvin bought for 16.5M, Sold for 9M
Cabella bought for 9M, Loaned to Marseile, later sold for 7M
Marveaux bought on a free, Released following a loan at Guingamp
Saviet bought for 5.4M, Loaned out
De Jong bought for 7M, Sold for 2M
The other De Jong was just on loan
Riviere brought in for 5.6M, Loaned out
Doumbia was brought in on loan

So actually, every single plyayer that you listed above that was brought in for their 'resale value' (which is purely your opinion), none of which, were sold for any profit whatsoever.

I agree about the best business model producing to either fund or form the first team. Carroll brought in 35M which was cracking business. You have the two Longstaff brothers who look promising, granted one maybe leaving (paper talk for the time being)



I mentioned in the thread earlier that you didn't bring many players in following the qualification for the Europa League, however you didn't lose many either. It was a solid enough squad got to the QFs of the European Cup.

Are you suggesting that Demba Ba would have stayed at Newcastle even if he had been offered a new deal? (unsure if he was offered one or not), but open your eyes, he went to Chelsea and was playing in the Champions League for fucksakes.



I am not a fan of MIke Ashley in general, but he isn't half as bad as you lot make out. Put it this way, If we had Ashley we wouldn't be sitting in League One.

Iirc re. the Demba Ba thing, he was on a contract where he was on 40k a week with a low release clause. After he'd been a success in 11/12, Harry Redknapp mentioned in press conference at the start of 12/13 he had an £8m release clause. According to reports, 80k a week was the supposed amount he'd sign a longer deal for to remove the release clause, but nufc were unwilling to meet that. So off he went in January.
Whether he wanted to stay or not, who knows


Edit: also finished 10th in our first season back in the top flight under Benitez. Finished 13th the second season back.

 

[Metro Man]

Fuck me there is some amount of google work going into some of these posts

I'm learning loads about NUFC on here. Very helpful.

 

[Sima]

Aye, it might make you all shut the fuck up and go elsewhere because it proves what you constantly bleat on about is utter shite.

Doubt it, after all it is rammed through your red and white filter before it appears as pixels on my screen.

Keep on with the forensic analysis though...

 

[DPTT]

No, people weren't moaning about investment because there had been investment. How is that anything but reasonable? You lot didn't moan about Grayson until shit went south. You weren't criticising Short when you were in the Premier League. You were celebrating Stewart Donald at the beginning, and even excited because Methven appeared on a few podcasts with his spin. You were singing Will Grigg's on fire when you signed him. I'm sure you'd be singing their names had it gone well.

Benitez may have had other offers but he chose to stay at Newcastle after relegation and has stated on record that the reaction from the fans and the potential he saw for us was what convinced him to stay. Had he been purely motivated by money he'd have fucked off to China or wherever there and then. Ashley doesn't get much credit for that. Just like he doesn't get credit for not getting rid of him within the term of his contract.

The signings made directly after Carroll were a mixed bag, Carr managed to find some good players for a cheap price (Sissoko e.g.) and those successes convinced Ashley that this was the model to follow. So in subsequent seasons when Newcastle United needed strikers, or defensive midfielders, or fullbacks, or whatever, we bought attacking midfielders like Thauvin, or Marveaux, or Siem de Jong, because they're where you can get the biggest profit if it goes well. We didn't sign what the club needed, we signed based on the potential resale value. No problem with buying to sell, if the team's needs come first, but they didn't and that disjointed recruitment strategy took us down a second time.

You say you see it how it is, but then tell me this, why is it the pervading wisdom (outside of Wearside) that Ashley has been a bad owner for Newcastle United? He himself has admitted as much on record. Before Ashley bought us we were competing in Europe, bobbling around midtable. Since he bought us we've been relegated twice and spent more seasons in the Championship than we have in Europe. We've stagnated off the pitch as well, little to no investment in the facilities, the academy or the stadium. Little to no growth on the commercial side of things, an area that you'd have expected a businessman of his success to have done well.

Ambition.

Trying and failing to win is one thing, not even trying to improve is a whole other story.

Your commercial income is above average and your transfer spending is comparable with most mid-table clubs. From an outsider which I am I would say that the whole club has performed to par and that includes Ashley. The top 5 or 6 are now in a completely different level which would take years of major investment in which you would more than likely never see a return on. We all want our teams to be the best they can. This we lack ambition/deserve to be higher/deserve to be in Europe etc is just bollocks personally. Would you invest a major chunk of your personal wealth to maybe climb 2/3 places in the league?

 

[Super Ted]

Doubt it, after all it is rammed through your red and white filter before it appears as pixels on my screen.

Keep on with the forensic analysis though...

Red and White pixels Says the bloke who posts about 30 times a day, everyday, on a Sunderland message board.

I'm learning loads about NUFC on here. Very helpful.

Pleased to put things into perspective for you based on facts, now off you tottle.

Iirc re. the Demba Ba thing, he was on a contract where he was on 40k a week with a low release clause. After he'd been a success in 11/12, Harry Redknapp mentioned in press conference at the start of 12/13 he had an £8m release clause. According to reports, 80k a week was the supposed amount he'd sign a longer deal for to remove the release clause, but nufc were unwilling to meet that. So off he went in January.
Whether he wanted to stay or not, who knows


Edit: also finished 10th in our first season back in the top flight under Benitez. Finished 13th the second season back.

I think the choice between Chelsea and Newcastle is a pretty obvious one.

Regarding the 10th /13th, yes i edited that soon after. Actually proves my point more though so thanks

 

[safctommie]

I've managed to find it.
Sunderland matchday revenue for 17/18 £6.6 million (£287k per game), which ranks them in 13th place in the championship.
This despite an average attendance of 27,635 which was 4th highest in the division.

£238 per person over the course of the season, or an average spend of £10.38 per game.
This matchday spend per person had Sunderland 24th in the division.

So going back to what you said, that if Newcastle fans had put their hands in their pockets a bit more we might've got better players, would you agree it's Sunderland fans to blame for not spending money that has got them where they are?

I’m sure those figures have been highlighted before on here.

 

[What A Waster]

I’m sure those figures have been highlighted before on here.

Seems ridiculously low for an average gate of 27k to be only costing a tenner per head.
How much are Sunderland season tickets?

 

[Sima]

Red and White pixels Says the bloke who posts about 30 times a day, everyday, on a Sunderland message board.

Pleased to put things into perspective for you based on facts, now off you tottle.

I think the choice between Chelsea and Newcastle is a pretty obvious one.

Regarding the 10th /13th, yes i edited that soon after. Actually proves my point more though so thanks

About as accurate as the rest of the shite you spout tbh. I mean, it's a pretty easy calculation but even that seems beyond you.

 

[Super Ted]

About as accurate as the rest of the shite you spout tbh. I mean, it's a pretty easy calculation but even that seems beyond you.

You can view how often people post but you've felt the need to put a restriction on yours so nobody can see your profile, how insecure.

 

[The Fish]

Newcastle didn't just merley survive under Benitez though, you finished 10th in your first season back in the Premiership finishing 8 points clear of relegation. FWIW you finished closer to 7th than relegated. Also, by the same logic of 'merely' surviving, should the ownership of Bournemouth, Burnley, Southampton and Brighton all be questioned as they all finished below you last season? or you can add Palace, Watford and West Ham to that from your first season back in the Premiership?

How , after so many times repeating the same thing, are you failing to understand the difference between aim and achievement? None of those teams aimed to be below Newcastle, did they?

An oversimplification of why you finished 5th You finished 5th because you were the 5th best side in the division that season you tit. Do people discredit Leicesters winning season because other teams were 'having bad seasons'.

People contextualise Leicester's unlikely Premier League win all the time. I contextualise Newcastle's unlikely 5th placed finish too. People are contextualising Liverpool's likely title win this season. Other Sunderland fans contextualise your relegations.

You have very little evidence to suggest your players are brought in purely for the resale value. Out of the players you listed above :-

Thauvin bought for 16.5M, Sold for 9M
Cabella bought for 9M, Loaned to Marseile, later sold for 7M
Marveaux bought on a free, Released following a loan at Guingamp
Saviet bought for 5.4M, Loaned out
De Jong bought for 7M, Sold for 2M
The other De Jong was just on loan
Riviere brought in for 5.6M, Loaned out
Doumbia was brought in on loan

So actually, every single plyayer that you listed above that was brought in for their 'resale value' (which is purely your opinion), none of which, were sold for any profit whatsoever.

Again, aim v achievement is tripping you up. None of those players were to make a loss on.

I agree about the best business model producing to either fund or form the first team. Carroll brought in 35M which was cracking business. You have the two Longstaff brothers who look promising, granted one maybe leaving (paper talk for the time being)

And that's despite little to no investment in the academy, imagine how many young local lads we could have brought through for buttons and either played or sold to cover investment in the first team.

I mentioned in the thread earlier that you didn't bring many players in following the qualification for the Europa League, however you didn't lose many either. It was a solid enough squad got to the QFs of the European Cup.

It wasn't that solid, we were fighting against relegation because the squad wasn't deep enough.

Are you suggesting that Demba Ba would have stayed at Newcastle even if he had been offered a new deal? (unsure if he was offered one or not), but open your eyes, he went to Chelsea and was playing in the Champions League for fucksakes.

“I tried from the summer of 2012 to sign a new contract with Newcastle but it never worked. It was always ‘We will give you this, but only if you play games’. I kept saying to them ‘It is the same – I will play’. But they wanted that in the contract. I kept saying ‘Don’t do this to me.’ ”

Direct quote from Ba. Of course when Chelsea found out about his pittance of a release clause they came in for him, but he was playing regularly, playing well, so why didn't they give him a new contract? Well because they gambled that we'd survive without him.

I am not a fan of MIke Ashley in general, but he isn't half as bad as you lot make out. Put it this way, If we had Ashley we wouldn't be sitting in League One.

You wouldn't be in League One, I think he'd be a decent owner for you. He'd get you back in the Premier League, he'll have learned a lot of lessons from owning us. Don't pick a fight with club legends, don't rename the stadium without paying for it, don't get embroiled in constructive dismissal cases with cancer sufferers, don't antagonise the fan base, and so on...

Thing is Ashley is worse than you make out, but not as bad as is made out by the caricature Newcastle fan you invent to serve a purpose.