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June to July 2020 - NUFC

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The Fish said:
No, people weren't moaning about investment because there had been investment. How is that anything but reasonable? :lol: You lot didn't moan about Grayson until shit went south. You weren't criticising Short when you were in the Premier League. You were celebrating Stewart Donald at the beginning, and even excited because Methven appeared on a few podcasts with his spin. You were singing Will Grigg's on fire when you signed him. I'm sure you'd be singing their names had it gone well.

Benitez may have had other offers but he chose to stay at Newcastle after relegation and has stated on record that the reaction from the fans and the potential he saw for us was what convinced him to stay. Had he been purely motivated by money he'd have fucked off to China or wherever there and then. Ashley doesn't get much credit for that. Just like he doesn't get credit for not getting rid of him within the term of his contract.

The signings made directly after Carroll were a mixed bag, Carr managed to find some good players for a cheap price (Sissoko e.g.) and those successes convinced Ashley that this was the model to follow. So in subsequent seasons when Newcastle United needed strikers, or defensive midfielders, or fullbacks, or whatever, we bought attacking midfielders like Thauvin, or Marveaux, or Siem de Jong, because they're where you can get the biggest profit if it goes well. We didn't sign what the club needed, we signed based on the potential resale value. No problem with buying to sell, if the team's needs come first, but they didn't and that disjointed recruitment strategy took us down a second time.

You say you see it how it is, but then tell me this, why is it the pervading wisdom (outside of Wearside) that Ashley has been a bad owner for Newcastle United? He himself has admitted as much on record. Before Ashley bought us we were competing in Europe, bobbling around midtable. Since he bought us we've been relegated twice and spent more seasons in the Championship than we have in Europe. We've stagnated off the pitch as well, little to no investment in the facilities, the academy or the stadium. Little to no growth on the commercial side of things, an area that you'd have expected a businessman of his success to have done well.

Ambition.

Trying and failing to win is one thing, not even trying to improve is a whole other story.
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Everything you have mentioned in the first paragraph was the initial feeling of appointments / signings, I would hope in any situation someone deserves a chance. The difference between us 'moaning about Grayson until it went south, Criticising Short when we were in the PL, Celebrating Donald at the beginning' is completely different to yours of Ashley. When he's putting money in and everything is going rosy no appreciation is given, yet when it goes tits up, absolutely everything is his fault.

Benitez played you all like an absolute fiddle man and you sitll believe to this day, because he went on record, to say he was staying for the fans. If you genuinally believe that you are mental. There's a reason why he fucked off to China and it's because Ashley didn't cave into his demands, combined with the fact he could make mega money elsewhere. Do you really think Benitez hasn't had better footballing offers than going to Dalian in some tinpot Chinese league? :lol:

... and rightly so, the transfers that Carr brought in propelled you to 5th. I ask again, how is that a negative? Surely the best business model any football club can follow in an ideal situation is maximum output (results) for little spend. Or is it just all about blowing unncessary money just to say you have spent it? You lot are absolutely mental when it comes to net spend and transfers, proper weird. He could have chucked loads of money at it, went tits up, and you lot would have moaned that he didn't follow Carrs successful model of buying players from foreign leagues that proved to be a success. There is also absolutely no guarantee that when a midtable / lower end side chucks money at things, it works, i.e. see Sunderland (at the time), Villa, Everton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Watford, West Ham, the list is endless.

Are you suggesting that following a model of bringing through young, European players such as Thauvin, Cabella & Siem De Jong was the wrong thing to do? I think your talking out your arse here because you even held a f***ing French day at St James Park' a season before they arrived, You could argue here that on that basis, Ashley funded in the next window exactly what the fans wanted :lol::lol:

There's a notion outside of the North East that Ashley is a bad owner, as much as there is one that other fans cannot stand the delusion that comes from your mouths. You consntantly live in hope that if you stamp and kick your feet enough people will take notice, all because you 'used to play in Europe' over 15 years ago. Something that has since been acheived by Burnley, West Ham, Southampton, Everton, Hull, Swansea, Stoke, Wigan & Birmingham. You live in your own self-righteous bubble that is an absolute embarrasment to football supporters.
 
sproates33 said:
Everything you have mentioned in the first paragraph was the initial feeling of appointments / signings, I would hope in any situation someone deserves a chance. The difference between us 'moaning about Grayson until it went south, Criticising Short when we were in the PL, Celebrating Donald at the beginning' is completely different to yours of Ashley. When he's putting money in and everything is going rosy no appreciation is given, yet when it goes tits up, absolutely everything is his fault.

Benitez played you all like an absolute fiddle man and you sitll believe to this day, because he went on record, to say he was staying for the fans. If you genuinally believe that you are mental. There's a reason why he fucked off to China and it's because Ashley didn't cave into his demands, combined with the fact he could make mega money elsewhere. Do you really think Benitez hasn't had better footballing offers than going to Dalian in some tinpot Chinese league? :lol:

... and rightly so, the transfers that Carr brought in propelled you to 5th. I ask again, how is that a negative? Surely the best business model any football club can follow in an ideal situation is maximum output (results) for little spend. Or is it just all about blowing unncessary money just to say you have spent it? You lot are absolutely mental when it comes to net spend and transfers, proper weird. He could have chucked loads of money at it, went tits up, and you lot would have moaned that he didn't follow Carrs successful model of buying players from foreign leagues that proved to be a success. There is also absolutely no guarantee that when a midtable / lower end side chucks money at things, it works, i.e. see Sunderland (at the time), Villa, Everton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Watford, West Ham, the list is endless.

Are you suggesting that following a model of bringing through young, European players such as Thauvin, Cabella & Siem De Jong was the wrong thing to do? I think your talking out your arse here because you even held a f***ing French day at St James Park' a season before they arrived, You could argue here that on that basis, Ashley funded in the next window exactly what the fans wanted :lol::lol:

There's a notion outside of the North East that Ashley is a bad owner, as much as there is one that other fans cannot stand the delusion that comes from your mouths. You consntantly live in hope that if you stamp and kick your feet enough people will take notice, all because you 'used to play in Europe' over 15 years ago. Something that has since been acheived by Burnley, West Ham, Southampton, Everton, Hull, Swansea, Stoke, Wigan & Birmingham. You live in your own self-righteous bubble that is an absolute embarrasment to football supporters.
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I haven’t been following this discussion but I find your reasoning and analysis spot on Sproates.

Bloody hell, I sound like that Dickinson bloke on Real Deal butting in like that lol
 
If you all put your hands in your pocket instead of being cheapskates maybe you could have afforded big signings and not relied on owner benevolence.

Matchday revenue per game = £1,168,000 divided by 52,238 screaming Jawdees thats 22.34 per game watching a team of vast European pedigree. Thats not just the tickets, but beer, food, shirts, programmes...... For comparison Liverpools is nearly 60 per head, per game.
 
sproates33 said:
Benitez played you all like an absolute fiddle man and you sitll believe to this day, because he went on record, to say he was staying for the fans. If you genuinally believe that you are mental. There's a reason why he fucked off to China and it's because Ashley didn't cave into his demands, combined with the fact he could make mega money elsewhere. Do you really think Benitez hasn't had better footballing offers than going to Dalian in some tinpot Chinese league? :lol:
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:lol:

The irony of lambasting Newcastle fans for this suggested viewpoint when Sunderland fans literally turned up in their hundreds to do free labour for 'The Don'. Well, you got a burger...
 
Sima said:
:lol:

The irony of lambasting Newcastle fans for this suggested viewpoint when Sunderland fans literally turned up in their hundreds to do free labour for 'The Don'. Well, you got a burger...
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The vast majority of people who turned up and carried the work out for their club, did it because it’s OUR stadium. It looked awful and the people who took the time should be commended, as the end result is having a little more pride in our home.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that people only turned up because they were doing it for Stewart Donald?

The original point was correct as well, you all fell hook, line and sinker for Rafa’s tactics...you could spot a mile off he was doing a runner and he had a ready made scapegoat in the owner.
 
jlaws said:
If you all put your hands in your pocket instead of being cheapskates maybe you could have afforded big signings and not relied on owner benevolence.

Matchday revenue per game = £1,168,000 divided by 52,238 screaming Jawdees thats 22.34 per game watching a team of vast European pedigree. Thats not just the tickets, but beer, food, shirts, programmes...... For comparison Liverpools is nearly 60 per head, per game.
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Crikey didn't realise it was that low.
What's Sunderlands out of interest? And where does that rank with the rest of the division per head. I assume 17/18 will be the last set of accounts published?
 
Blue_Monday said:
Short was a far better owner than Ashley, he at least tried to make Sunderland competitive, his problem was he gave the wrong money to the wrong manager's and then eventually couldn't afford to spend anymore. Sunderland fans seem to think that because Ashley spent a few quid after Newcastle were relegated that makes him a good owner, someone will come along in a minute and say how Ashley has spend loads of money and how he bankrolled Benitez, but the truth is that the only money being spent was money Ashley had managed to make from player sales or when he got scared relegation was a possibility so he had to spend a few quid. Newcastle fans should be grateful apparently and have unrealistic expectations for wanting more than a relegation battle every season and not trying in the cups, complete madness.
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Aye, he was either badly advised, or made bad decisions against advice. I'd expect it was the former.

Said it to mackem mates that beating us in the derbys actually contributed to Sunderland's troubles. Had they gone down earlier, they'd have been in a far better place to return and return from a position of comparative strength.
 
The Fish said:
Aye, he was either badly advised, or made bad decisions against advice. I'd expect it was the former.

Said it to mackem mates that beating us in the derbys actually contributed to Sunderland's troubles. Had they gone down earlier, they'd have been in a far better place to return and return from a position of comparative strength.
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Whatever makes you feel better after the 6 in a row :lol:
 
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