New buyers put off by £20 million hole in accounts

[Mackem2017]

Probably doesn’t want to be associated with what has occurred. The discussion when he left was how odd it was with the timing and the fact there didn’t appear to be a reason for it.

Yeah would love to hear his thoughts in a year or 2 probably had to sign a confidentiality agreement

 

[kildaremackem]

If we ever get back to the premier lg , it certainly wouldn’t happen with these fools in charge, the money you get through the turnstiles is irrelevant so your quote at stadium not being full is just another in a long line of CM like dig at fans.
We have lost money when in the premier before no doubt, because we have been run with no structure in place worthy of the word anyway since certainly Quinnny left & maybe only Sir Bob did finances well to be honest.

the tunstiles money isnt irrelavnt!" its about 20 per cent of turnove for big successful clubs! sand those ae clubs with vastly bigge merchandising opeations etc contributing to turnover than safc will eve have!

premier legaue owners ae literall soeding tens of millions to make stadiums bigger, in order to get more revenue from stadoiums. so the dont think its irrelevvant! spurs have spet a billio quid on a stadium..why do that if the revenue from matchday is irelevant?
the onl cash the liverpool onwers have put in is to fund the new stand..they havent put a penn of their own i to fund a stadioum..
the chelasea ower is tring to expand stamford bridge..the palace owner is expanidng selut..are all of those guys, ho run svastl more successful clubs than safc..wrong?
o could it be you are wrong and are afflcited by the notion that an owner should just come in, empty their wallets and leave? could it be thats why no fucker has bought the club?
of ourse we wont get to the prem with doald inc hage, ee isnt nearly competent enough..

Yeah would love to hear his thoughts in a year or 2 probably had to sign a confidentiality agreement

he has a long freidnship with methven that goes back many years..doubt he would ruin that..

 

[stevo]

We had a lot of 48000 gates in Reidys 7 th finishes

 

[kildaremackem]

We had a lot of 48000 gates in Reidys 7 th finishes

so thats what it takes to sell out? coming 7th?
well thats going to add another £100m to the amount they would have to pout in..so potenuiall £100m to get to prem..£100m to get to 7th..
plus whatev the purcase price is..
and the club probably still wouldnt be profitable..
oh wow you guys sure are selling it to me right now..

 

[Black Cat Gypsy]

I think FPP have Donald backed into a corner. Donald thought he could play with the big boys and get as much money out of these uneducated Americans. But he's small fry and is now getting taught a lesson.

Well I hope so.

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

i agree the £35m price seems exteme..though the clubs equity was valued in the deal at £15m when SD bought it....so someone buying the equity would have that as a reference point. I agree, I dont see how they get from £15m to £35m..i mean the debt is vastly reduced, as are the long run liabilities, and they seem to have net cash on the balance sheet and to have been trading at operatioal break even, none pf which thigs were true before they got here and those are all positives that should make the equity worth much more..the loss of para money income and in particular the vast capital requirements the club will have in years to come, potential hundreds of millions..and the fact that even if all the cash required to get two promotios woks and yiu get to the premier league..safc still doesnt sell out most home games in the premier league and doesnt make a profit in the pemier league, so where would the return come from?

You say SAFC doesn't make a profit in the Premier League but, really, what you mean is previously it hasn't. Most premier league clubs now do make a profit. That's changed from years ago so I don't think it would be fair to bring our financial performance in the early 2000s when we had Murray it. So what you're really talking about is that Sunderland didn't make a profit under Drumaville (where they were having to spend over the odds thanks to our reputation for being absolutely shit in the PL) and Short, who we all know was one of the worst, most wasteful owners ever (albeit with the right intentions).

People looking to buy now won't be thinking "they aren't profitable in the Premier league", they'll be thinking "they weren't profitable there previously but we know that with the current TV money, and the fact most clubs are profitable there now, we can make Sunderland profitable as well as long as we run it well, have good recruitment and actually get value from the academy ".

I do agree with you about gate receipts, we've often been about 5th or 6th for average attendance but teams with 25,000 have made a lot more. Partly I think it's due to the hospitality side of things but it is also true that the prices have been very low. Again though things change and I'm sure new owners could raise prices somewhat if they'd done the hard work involved in getting us competitive again. But previous losses in the PL doesn't mean Sunderland lose money, it just means we used to when we were badly ran

 

[Super Ted]

FPP trinv to strangle them to debt for £9m? they can find £9m in a few hours between the three of them man!
i suspect FPP angle is to buy them out of we go up to champo..

the idea Donald doesnt have £9m caSH, NEVE MIND SARTORI, IS JUST LUDUCROUS..

Stop typing like a complete tit man.

 

[Black Cat Gypsy]

so thats what it takes to sell out? coming 7th?
well thats going to add another £100m to the amount they would have to pout in..so potenuiall £100m to get to prem..£100m to get to 7th..
plus whatev the purcase price is..
and the club probably still wouldnt be profitable..
oh wow you guys sure are selling it to me right now..

We got 30k at our last home game against Gillingham in League One. We were getting over 42k in the PL.

The problem is, you are looking at it as a business and not a football club. People will be looking at it as a club that has a good fanbase with a great stadium and academy.

 

[kildaremackem]

You say SAFC doesn't make a profit in the Premier League but, really, what you mean is previously it hasn't. Most premier league clubs now do make a profit. That's changed from years ago so I don't think it would be fair to bring our financial performance in the early 2000s when we had Murray it. So what you're really talking about is that Sunderland didn't make a profit under Drumaville (where they were having to spend over the odds thanks to our reputation for being absolutely shit in the PL) and Short, who we all know was one of the worst, most wasteful owners ever (albeit with the right intentions).

People looking to buy now won't be thinking "they aren't profitable in the Premier league", they'll be thinking "they weren't profitable there previously but we know that with the current TV money, and the fact most clubs are profitable there now, we can make Sunderland profitable as well as long as we run it well, have good recruitment and actually get value from the academy ".

I do agree with you about gate receipts, we've often been about 5th or 6th for average attendance but teams with 25,000 have made a lot more. Partly I think it's due to the hospitality side of things but it is also true that the prices have been very low. Again though things change and I'm sure new owners could raise prices somewhat if they'd done the hard work involved in getting us competitive again. But previous losses in the PL doesn't mean Sunderland lose money, it just means we used to when we were badly ran

I agree with this of course, but a prospective owner would have little cetainty about whether there would be a pofitable business there and to what extent it would be profitable...tough as you say even quite small premie league clubs can make a profit now if they are properly run, which SAFC hasnt been for over a decade..i think the owners priority should be to fill the ground first if in pemie league..then wory about price rises..

 

[stevo]

so thats what it takes to sell out? coming 7th?
well thats going to add another £100m to the amount they would have to pout in..so potenuiall £100m to get to prem..£100m to get to 7th..
plus whatev the purcase price is..
and the club probably still wouldnt be profitable..
oh wow you guys sure are selling it to me right now..

Yep,i suppose the point im making is we the fans turn up for horrific football in tremendous numbers.I really dont know of many other clubs that would have the gates we get in this div.So the price has got to be the stumbling block.Also ive said this on other threads the players are furloughed so stewy must be having to top up Rishis contributionhow long can he do this,would it not be better to cut his losses.

 

[kildaremackem]

Yep,i suppose the point im making is we the fans turn up for horrific football in tremendous numbers.I really dont know of many other clubs that would have the gates we get in this div.So the price has got to be the stumbling block.Also ive said this on other threads the players are furloughed so stewy must be having to top up Rishis contributionhow long can he do this,would it not be better to cut his losses.

he put £12m into eastleigh on his own man...if he can do £12m on his own thee..the can go for a long time here wit business partners behind them..
he isnt going to walk away from the tens of millions worth of asset he has fior the sake of a poxy £9m..the club isnt losing money at the operating level..ie he isnt having to fund that..

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

I agree with this of course, but a prospective owner would have little cetainty about whether there would be a pofitable business there and to what extent it would be profitable...tough as you say even quite small premie league clubs can make a profit now if they are properly run, which SAFC hasnt been for over a decade..i think the owners priority should be to fill the ground first if in pemie league..then wory about price rises..

To be honest I think they need to find the right price point before worrying about filling the stadium. I don't think we'd get 48,000 regularly unless we were challenging for the champions league places almost regardless of price. That won't be popular on here but even if we were, say, 8th in the top flight I don't think we'd be packing the place out. There's also (admittedly when we've been poor) been loads of offers where season card holders can bring others for a tenner and attendances haven't really peaked. I think a successful SAFC could regularly get 48,000 but an average PL SAFC would probably be at about 42,000 with extra for the big games. I think if we ever get back there we need to expect to pay a bit more. I think most of the loyal season card holders would accept it and I think if the "product" was good enough so would the match by match attenders. I think we've priced it very low when I think a bit extra wouldn't actually knock much off the gate. But like I say that then needs to be hand in hand with owners demonstrating that they've also put a lot in and, crucially, that they've shown they can spend money wisely. If they're doing their bit I think the fans will be happy to dig a bit deeper. We're a long way from that currently though when this lot can't even get us out of league one

 

[stevo]

We got 30k at our last home game against Gillingham in League One. We were getting over 42k in the PL.

The problem is, you are looking at it as a business and not a football club. People will be looking at it as a club that has a good fanbase with a great stadium and academy.

Spot on marra,ive said for many years anyone gets this right is sitting on a fortune here.The ground was i think built on foundations that meant wecan extend the east and south to 63000 ,which we will fill hopefully in my lifetime.

 

[molthemackem]

TD has worked with methven on three or four seperate occasions ow..he knows him well indeed...so presumably knew exactly what he was getting into..im more dissapointed in methven than donald..donald's peformance has been about as bad as i expected...but mtethve, with his vast football experience, should have done better. Donald at least brought in eil Fox to fix the financial side, and Donald has acknowledged his failings..Methven's "this is what good looks like" and now his striding around like a sage on football contrasts ver badly indeed with Donald.

the reason for it was made perfectly clear at the time. so you have just lied.

I'm a personal friend of Tony Davison

I think FPP have Donald backed into a corner. Donald thought he could play with the big boys and get as much money out of these uneducated Americans. But he's small fry and is now getting taught a lesson.

Well I hope so.

I reckon your very near the mark with your theory.

 

[stevo]

he put £12m into eastleigh on his own man...if he can do £12m on his own thee..the can go for a long time here wit business partners behind them..
he isnt going to walk away from the tens of millions worth of asset he has fior the sake of a poxy £9m..the club isnt losing money at the operating level..ie he isnt having to fund that..

So are you saying the players arnt getting correct pay,someone is topping up the furlough money,and every half savvy interested party will know that.He has got money they all do ,however at this minute they are holed below the water lineand bailing out with a rusty tin.

 

[Squat]

so thats what it takes to sell out? coming 7th?
well thats going to add another £100m to the amount they would have to pout in..so potenuiall £100m to get to prem..£100m to get to 7th..
plus whatev the purcase price is..
and the club probably still wouldnt be profitable..
oh wow you guys sure are selling it to me right now..

we dont have to spend that kind of money like. sheffied united havent spent 200m on their squad. what did newcastle, brighton or bournemouth squads cost and they have been mid-table teams. 150-200m maybe. and newcastle are worth 300m apparently.
we could spend 200m and end up a mid-table championship team. we could spend 100m and end up like sheffield united. sheff u will probably end up spending more and more money and drop back to mid table then go backwards like most teams do. we just need people in charge who can recruit properly.

 

[kildaremackem]

So are you saying the players arnt getting correct pay,someone is topping up the furlough money,and every half savvy interested party will know that.He has got money they all do ,however at this minute they are holed below the water lineand bailing out with a rusty tin.

but they arent bailing out worth shit..the club before fulough had net cash..ie didnt need cash from owners..and was breaking even..
the clubs unning costs mucst be fuck ll with so many on furlough..but donald is along way from having put £112m in..and he did that wit eastliegh..so thats his limit at minimum..plus satori is there as well.
the idea these guys ae going to un out of cash is a silly fantasy im afraid..

 

[Sons of The Wear]

Probably doesn’t want to be associated with what has occurred. The discussion when he left was how odd it was with the timing and the fact there didn’t appear to be a reason for it.

Davison's evaporation into metaphorical thin air is just another scenario that the owners still refuse to explain properly, and yet another reason why there is such an air of distrust around SAFC right now.

Tony suddenly went without rhyme or reason after supposedly being a key part of the new set up. But like the Dortmund Model, Juan Sartori's reason for being involved in our club, Methven's December departure "for family reasons" [and now he is still making decisions and giving media interviews etc.], the takeover failing after being within a hair's breadth of happening, we are never seemingly told the truth from owners who informed us all that the piss taking party was over upon their arrival on Wearside.

These are all reasons why there's so much current unrest amongst the fan base-continual cloak and dagger behaviour that the thick northerners, contributors to the #sunderlanddisease should simply seemingly tolerate and not question. Not many businesses can get away with treating their customers with such utter contempt.

the tunstiles money isnt irrelavnt!" its about 20 per cent of turnove for big successful clubs! sand those ae clubs with vastly bigge merchandising opeations etc contributing to turnover than safc will eve have!

premier legaue owners ae literall soeding tens of millions to make stadiums bigger, in order to get more revenue from stadoiums. so the dont think its irrelevvant! spurs have spet a billio quid on a stadium..why do that if the revenue from matchday is irelevant?
the onl cash the liverpool onwers have put in is to fund the new stand..they havent put a penn of their own i to fund a stadioum..
the chelasea ower is tring to expand stamford bridge..the palace owner is expanidng selut..are all of those guys, ho run svastl more successful clubs than safc..wrong?
o could it be you are wrong and are afflcited by the notion that an owner should just come in, empty their wallets and leave? could it be thats why no fucker has bought the club?
of ourse we wont get to the prem with doald inc hage, ee isnt nearly competent enough..

he has a long freidnship with methven that goes back many years..doubt he would ruin that..

Davison might ultimately spill the beans if he feels he was badly treated by his 'friend' Methven. The bottom line is that after being continually lauded by CM for the job he was doing at SAFC, to suddenly depart, unheralded, in mid season was not normal. He was clearly edged out by the owners for reasons only they know.

Ironically Methven resigned from daily duties at the club last December for personal reasons, yet has miraculously reappeared of late, giving media interviews and going on as though we should just accept he never said he was leaving in the first place. Maybe he could tell us all where his 'Dortmund Model' disappreaed to, what the point of Sartori ever was and why the takeover fell through thus robbing SAFC of the chance of a lifetime?

As for Kildare, the mind boggles......

 

[kildaremackem]

we dont have to spend that kind of money like. sheffied united havent spent 200m on their squad. what did newcastle, brighton or bournemouth squads cost and they have been mid-table teams. 150-200m maybe. and newcastle are worth 300m apparently.
we could spend 200m and end up a mid-table championship team. we could spend 100m and end up like sheffield united. sheff u will probably end up spending more and more money and drop back to mid table then go backwards like most teams do. we just need people in charge who can recruit properly.

this is absolutely corect. the point is, a potential owner is leaving themselves open to the risk they might have to spend at that level in order to get to pmeier league..leeds for example, have, throug various owners spennt that and more, and not gone up yet...its the risk it could happen..

 

[wackyjacky]

the tunstiles money isnt irrelavnt!" its about 20 per cent of turnove for big successful clubs! sand those ae clubs with vastly bigge merchandising opeations etc contributing to turnover than safc will eve have!

premier legaue owners ae literall soeding tens of millions to make stadiums bigger, in order to get more revenue from stadoiums. so the dont think its irrelevvant! spurs have spet a billio quid on a stadium..why do that if the revenue from matchday is irelevant?
the onl cash the liverpool onwers have put in is to fund the new stand..they havent put a penn of their own i to fund a stadioum..
the chelasea ower is tring to expand stamford bridge..the palace owner is expanidng selut..are all of those guys, ho run svastl more successful clubs than safc..wrong?
o could it be you are wrong and are afflcited by the notion that an owner should just come in, empty their wallets and leave? could it be thats why no fucker has bought the club?
of ourse we wont get to the prem with doald inc hage, ee isnt nearly competent enough..

he has a long freidnship with methven that goes back many years..doubt he would ruin that..

But isn't ours ran by Elior? So they get the income from hospitality and corporate events, the club got a sum upfront and a small percentage of revenue unless they hold their own events which are few and far between.