New buyers put off by £20 million hole in accounts

[ReaL Madras]

Because that would have left him even further out of pocket. As it was he paid off £22m or so of the SBC debt from his own resources (on top of all his other input, a further £23m was paid by cashing in a bond Sunderland had had to lodge with FPP. That left the £25m. That got moved because he was intent on presenting the club as debt free. It wasn't, other than cosmetically. The first draft of the contract (as revealed by CM at a supporters' groups meeting) even had Short being paid that part of the parachute direct, until it was realised that PL rules wouldn't allow it. Short did it because he only ended up a few million extra down (the share price plus the £25m, less the £22m he did pay off) on the amount of internal debt he wrote off. It left him £25m better off. Could other offers have met the £40m price, but were unattractive to him in other way? You have to think either they didn't, or there were other aspects to those bids which he found unacceptable/

I’m pretty sure that it must have suited his overall tax planning at that point of time. I just think that he had concluded that the time was right, he could plan and exit but he couldn’t generate interest from the financial big boys whilst Bain had effectively ran the club into the ground. This was probably the only scheme that he could make work and it would actually secure revenue into the future whilst clearing the debts / tax right off, all at the same time.

 

[Zak's Dad]

Its widely believed that both cattermole and oviedo did not leave a penny behind.

According to Bob on a thread yesterday they're both getting £20K per week this season and next season from us.

 

[Mary Hinge]

The interview just proves they are full of shit. The club is debt free but owed money by Madrox. Madrox are the holding company for SAFC. Yes the club is debt free but is tied up as an asset of Madrox.

Like ye saying ye own a hoose but still hev a mortgage?

 

[Coeus]

Can you imagine, I mean f***ing hell. The cheek of it.

 

[Black Cat Gypsy]

According to Bob on a thread yesterday they're both getting £20K per week this season and next season from us.

So we are paying 2 players £20k a week each for the next 2 years but the owners have £20m just sitting in Madrox ready to pay back?

Like ye saying ye own a hoose but still hev a mortgage?

Yes. I own my house and if I don't pay my mortgage I'll lose my house. The house hasn't got the debt but I do.

 

[Mary Hinge]

So we are paying 2 players £20k a week each for the next 2 years but the owners have £20m just sitting in Madrox ready to pay back?

Yes. I own my house and if I don't pay my mortgage I'll lose my house. The house hasn't got the debt but I do.

The bank owns it marra.....miss a few payments and you'll find out

 

[GillytheGilf]

According to Bob on a thread yesterday they're both getting £20K per week this season and next season from us.

He did.

I feel a bit sorry for Charlie and Donald today(I didn’t yesterday) as they have said from day one the club will need investment from outside.They nearly got it right last year if it wasn’t for the Maja situation and Jack Ross being another dreadful appointment.

We wanted an explanation on yesterday’s headlines and we got it.

We want significant investment and the club pushing onto the next level and they seem to be doing their best to do that aswell.

I honestly think for better or worse their intentions have been good but nothing has come off.

the Will Grigg situation sums their time up to a certain extent to me,trying to hard and shooting themselves in the foot.

Talking to fans on Twitter,meant well but was always going to end in tears.

talking to fans at talk ins,well meant but shot themselves in the foot.

mixing with fans on match day.Im a sunderland supporter from across the rd to the ground and if I owned the club I couldn’t walk in the pubs on a match day as it would end in tears.

Their time here has been well meant but by fuck really really naive.This isn’t a club like Eastleigh or South Shields. it’s a monster.

 

[Zak's Dad]

So we are paying 2 players £20k a week each for the next 2 years but the owners have £20m just sitting in Madrox ready to pay back?

Apparently / allegedly so, both things are second / third hand information so not verifiable.

The stuff about the two players contracts were just an aside from Bob on a thread where he was trying to explain just how bad things were at the club, the bit about the money is just the amount floated about by the Times article - god knows what the real truth is regarding that?

 

[samaistonsrightfoot]

Can you imagine, I mean f***ing hell. The cheek of it.

The best part is where they pretty much confirm they won't be paying it back after all.

'are there plans for the debt to be repaid should the sale progress?'

'There is no debt between the club and Madrox to settle. The proceeds of any sale of the club will see funds return to Madrox and what happens to the proceeds will be a matter for the board of Madrox. The club at that point will have no connection to Madrox. '

 

[raven_5]

So we are paying 2 players £20k a week each for the next 2 years but the owners have £20m just sitting in Madrox ready to pay back?

Yes, we're loaded but they still needed to strip the Academy of any young prospect.
Who believes these clowns anymore? Doesn't matter anyhow, if they put 20m in the club they would spend it wrong.

 

[Zak's Dad]

He did.

I feel a bit sorry for Charlie and Donald today(I didn’t yesterday) as they have said from day one the club will need investment from outside.They nearly got it right last year if it wasn’t for the Maja situation and Jack Ross being another dreadful appointment.

We wanted an explanation on yesterday’s headlines and we got it.

We want significant investment and the club pushing onto the next level and they seem to be doing their best to do that aswell.

I honestly think for better or worse their intentions have been good but nothing has come off.

the Will Grigg situation sums their time up to a certain extent to me,trying to hard and shooting themselves in the foot.

Talking to fans on Twitter,meant well but was always going to end in tears.

talking to fans at talk ins,well meant but shot themselves in the foot.

mixing with fans on match day.Im a sunderland supporter from across the rd to the ground and if I owned the club I couldn’t walk in the pubs on a match day as it would end in tears.

Their time here has been well meant but by fuck really really naive.This isn’t a club like Eastleigh or South Shields. it’s a monster.

I absolutely agree with you, from the first time I was critical of them (the first winter, with selling kids and a lack of direction) I said at the outset I actually believe they came here with good intentions believing they could do something great at the club. I just think they underestimated what was required in terms of 'turning the supertanker round'.

My main issue then is the same as now, this is a once in a generation chance to reset the club and give it a complete footballing overhaul like Wolves, Leicester and Southampton.
Instead we got a slash and burn response to everything and a gamble that we would get promoted.
The longer this goes on the lack of leadership from above and footballing plan / direction becomes more and more painfully obvious.

We're now about to be consigned to a third season in Division 3, with yet more massive upheaval required to 'just get by', and I'm afraid their good intentions have come to nothing.

On the pitch we've never looked like a "confident, cohesive football team with Premier league and international experience and a budget greater than the rest of the league combined, dominating matches and confident of promotion".

As people I feel really sorry for some of the things that have happened to them, but they're out of their depth and keep pretending everything is going to plan.

 

[Coeus]

The best part is where they pretty much confirm they won't be paying it back after all.

'are there plans for the debt to be repaid should the sale progress?'

'There is no debt between the club and Madrox to settle. The proceeds of any sale of the club will see funds return to Madrox and what happens to the proceeds will be a matter for the board of Madrox. The club at that point will have no connection to Madrox. '

Do they not continue to contradict that in the next question or two also?

It's almost as if they're taking the piss for the fun of it. Can imagine Charlie pissing himself behind whoever is writing it saying "go on, throw another contradiction in there. Oh, I've got it, make out were doing them a favour by saying we arent charging interest on the loan THEY have provided US that we have written off, they'll go ape shit".

 

[Charmless Man]

Do they not continue to contradict that in the next question or two also?

It's almost as if they're taking the piss for the fun of it. Can imagine Charlie pissing himself behind whoever is writing it saying "go on, throw another contradiction in there. Oh, I've got it, make out were doing them a favour by saying we arent charging interest on the loan THEY have provided US that we have written off, they'll go ape shit".

Charlie will have written it himself whilst listening to Armin van Buren through his laptop speakers.

 

[Mary Hinge]

I absolutely agree with you, from the first time I was critical of them (the first winter, with selling kids and a lack of direction) I said at the outset I actually believe they came here with good intentions believing they could do something great at the club. I just think they underestimated what was required in terms of 'turning the supertanker round'.

My main issue then is the same as now, this is a once in a generation chance to reset the club and give it a complete footballing overhaul like Wolves, Leicester and Southampton.
Instead we got a slash and burn response to everything and a gamble that we would get promoted.
The longer this goes on the lack of leadership from above and footballing plan / direction becomes more and more painfully obvious.

We're now about to be consigned to a third season in Division 3, with yet more massive upheaval required to 'just get by', and I'm afraid their good intentions have come to nothing.

On the pitch we've never looked like a "confident, cohesive football team with Premier league and international experience and a budget greater than the rest of the league combined, dominating matches and confident of promotion".

As people I feel really sorry for some of the things that have happened to them, but they're out of their depth and keep pretending everything is going to plan.

Ross was like a rabbit in the headlights, we needed a big personality to fill the technical area, someone who could operate well beyond League Juan.....

 

[samaistonsrightfoot]

Do they not continue to contradict that in the next question or two also?

It's almost as if they're taking the piss for the fun of it. Can imagine Charlie pissing himself behind whoever is writing it saying "go on, throw another contradiction in there. Oh, I've got it, make out were doing them a favour by saying we arent charging interest on the loan THEY have provided US that we have written off, they'll go ape shit".

Aye they say they will pay it back, then say they won't, then say they will again.

By the way he's talking in that (as I think it's all Methven) the plan is to sell the club and keep Madrox. When Donald was last in the radio he was saying the buyers woukd aquire Madrox.

'So a future takeover would likely go through Madrox?
"Yes. Anybody who wanted to buy the club would likely buy the holding company, and the holding company of Sunderland is Madrox.

"The reality of it is, if somebody buys or wanted to buy Sunderland Football Club they would most likely acquire Madrox.

"You could buy the club from Madrox, but you would have to get approval from all the people who are owed money by Madrox, which is now myself, Juan, Charlie and the guys from America.

"So in practical terms you wouldn't do that. You would just acquire the holding company."'

It's just the standard contradictory bullshit we've become accustomed to.

 

[raven_5]

He did.

I feel a bit sorry for Charlie and Donald today(I didn’t yesterday) as they have said from day one the club will need investment from outside.They nearly got it right last year if it wasn’t for the Maja situation and Jack Ross being another dreadful appointment.

We wanted an explanation on yesterday’s headlines and we got it.

We want significant investment and the club pushing onto the next level and they seem to be doing their best to do that aswell.

I honestly think for better or worse their intentions have been good but nothing has come off.

the Will Grigg situation sums their time up to a certain extent to me,trying to hard and shooting themselves in the foot.

Talking to fans on Twitter,meant well but was always going to end in tears.

talking to fans at talk ins,well meant but shot themselves in the foot.

mixing with fans on match day.Im a sunderland supporter from across the rd to the ground and if I owned the club I couldn’t walk in the pubs on a match day as it would end in tears.

Their time here has been well meant but by fuck really really naive.This isn’t a club like Eastleigh or South Shields. it’s a monster.

I don't feel sorry for them because they treated the fans like morons. They said they paid 40m when they should've said they got the club for 25m less, they clearly wanted to make a profit (why would they take on a club they knew they couldn't fund after promotion?), they were bragging about their negotiation skills and dealings with agents while they were having their pants pulled down by anyone. They treated a huge club with massive disrespect and when the hard questions came, they were nowhere to be seen or heard.
3 seasons in L1 is absolutely unacceptable, we had the best squad in this division with a top Academy when they took over.
The man had the nerve to get from this to Sunderland: “I hit the roof because we were giving out free bottles of water which cost us 10p and the players were only drinking half of it. It’s wastage and I saved the club £500.”

 

[The Cabbage]

I absolutely agree with you, from the first time I was critical of them (the first winter, with selling kids and a lack of direction) I said at the outset I actually believe they came here with good intentions believing they could do something great at the club. I just think they underestimated what was required in terms of 'turning the supertanker round'.

My main issue then is the same as now, this is a once in a generation chance to reset the club and give it a complete footballing overhaul like Wolves, Leicester and Southampton.
Instead we got a slash and burn response to everything and a gamble that we would get promoted.
The longer this goes on the lack of leadership from above and footballing plan / direction becomes more and more painfully obvious.

We're now about to be consigned to a third season in Division 3, with yet more massive upheaval required to 'just get by', and I'm afraid their good intentions have come to nothing.

On the pitch we've never looked like a "confident, cohesive football team with Premier league and international experience and a budget greater than the rest of the league combined, dominating matches and confident of promotion".

As people I feel really sorry for some of the things that have happened to them, but they're out of their depth and keep pretending everything is going to plan.

Spot on. I dislike the dishonesty they’ve shown as highlighted the past few days - and I don’t particularly trust their intentions any more. However the main issue I have with them is their absolutely abject performance on the football side. Dreadful appointments, dreadful recruitment, brainless ideals, careless attitudes, short term actions and ultimately a horrendous mess of their own creation. That’s what really matters. That’s what has damaged Safc for the next 10 years. That’s why we need them gone ASAP.

 

[fyl2u]

Aye they say they will pay it back, then say they won't, then say they will again.

By the way he's talking in that (as I think it's all Methven) the plan is to sell the club and keep Madrox. When Donald was last in the radio he was saying the buyers woukd aquire Madrox.

'So a future takeover would likely go through Madrox?
"Yes. Anybody who wanted to buy the club would likely buy the holding company, and the holding company of Sunderland is Madrox.

"The reality of it is, if somebody buys or wanted to buy Sunderland Football Club they would most likely acquire Madrox.

"You could buy the club from Madrox, but you would have to get approval from all the people who are owed money by Madrox, which is now myself, Juan, Charlie and the guys from America.

"So in practical terms you wouldn't do that. You would just acquire the holding company."'

It's just the standard contradictory bullshit we've become accustomed to.

Where's the contradiction there marra?

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

A buyer could buy the club from Madrox if they wanted, but most likely they'd just buy Madrox.

I don't see what the problem is with what they've said there.

 

[samaistonsrightfoot]

Spot on. I dislike the dishonesty they’ve shown as highlighted the past few days - and I don’t particularly trust their intentions any more. However the main issue I have with them is their absolutely abject performance on the football side. Dreadful appointments, dreadful recruitment, brainless ideals, careless attitudes, short term actions and ultimately a horrendous mess of their own creation. That’s what really matters. That’s what has damaged Safc for the next 10 years. That’s why we need them gone ASAP.

Still think everything they did was geared to selling last summer and when that went tits up it was already too late. There was no forward planning for a second season at any point.

 

[Zak's Dad]

Ross was like a rabbit in the headlights, we needed a big personality to fill the technical area, someone who could operate well beyond League Juan.....

I actually thought the signing of an apparently modern and progressive coach was a good sign for the direction of the club - even though I'd ever heard of him.

But after the first month or so he abandoned the flexible, high tempo, high pressing game for an incredibly negative, safety first game plan.
As you say he appeared either terrified of losing due to the expectations, or he simply didn't believe in any of the players he signed / managed.
Playing without a striker for 20 minutes during a must win match at Wembley was textbook "rabbit in headlights", and to keep him, not back him then sack him at the first opportunity was ridiculous.