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Significant investment by FPP has been made

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stevo said:
Thank the lord mate spot on.Also those on about transparency and clarity how well has that gone for stewy and chas.I would tell the fuckers nowt from now on,unless of a spectacular nature.Theres a section of social media hellbent on knowing how many pieces of toilet paper they use after a vindaloo curry.
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I largely agree with that. Of course we'd all like to know the future plans but there's every chance they aren't set in stone yet and the Americans might not want it being discussed by the current owners. I'm happy that we've got a £10m loan which isn't creating a debt for SAFC, happy that it is being spent on two key areas which have been underperforming and which should help us build, and happy that the Americans no doubt don't intend the loan to simply be repaid with interest and they walk away, as that wouldn't make any sense.

We'll need a bit of strengthening in January but I'm confident that the current owners will be able to sensibly fund that. As an example we're crying out for an upgraded version of Wyke, if a reasonable forward was available for a fair price I'm sure they'd back Parkinson by bringing him in, more than ever they need to get us promoted. So I'm quite happy just to get on with supporting the lads on the pitch and let the owners and the Americans sort out the stuff in the background. I'm sure that the current plan, depending on progress, is for them to eventually become shareholders and we'll hopefully be told as soon as that happens, until then just let them crack on!
 

Guinness Guzzler said:
I largely agree with that. Of course we'd all like to know the future plans but there's every chance they aren't set in stone yet and the Americans might not want it being discussed by the current owners. I'm happy that we've got a £10m loan which isn't creating a debt for SAFC, happy that it is being spent on two key areas which have been underperforming and which should help us build, and happy that the Americans no doubt don't intend the loan to simply be repaid with interest and they walk away, as that wouldn't make any sense.

We'll need a bit of strengthening in January but I'm confident that the current owners will be able to sensibly fund that. As an example we're crying out for an upgraded version of Wyke, if a reasonable forward was available for a fair price I'm sure they'd back Parkinson by bringing him in, more than ever they need to get us promoted. So I'm quite happy just to get on with supporting the lads on the pitch and let the owners and the Americans sort out the stuff in the background. I'm sure that the current plan, depending on progress, is for them to eventually become shareholders and we'll hopefully be told as soon as that happens, until then just let them crack on!
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Given the euphoria before they are bound to be downplaying everything now- it's not the investment but the intent that people should be excited about
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
I largely agree with that. Of course we'd all like to know the future plans but there's every chance they aren't set in stone yet and the Americans might not want it being discussed by the current owners. I'm happy that we've got a £10m loan which isn't creating a debt for SAFC, happy that it is being spent on two key areas which have been underperforming and which should help us build, and happy that the Americans no doubt don't intend the loan to simply be repaid with interest and they walk away, as that wouldn't make any sense.

We'll need a bit of strengthening in January but I'm confident that the current owners will be able to sensibly fund that. As an example we're crying out for an upgraded version of Wyke, if a reasonable forward was available for a fair price I'm sure they'd back Parkinson by bringing him in, more than ever they need to get us promoted. So I'm quite happy just to get on with supporting the lads on the pitch and let the owners and the Americans sort out the stuff in the background. I'm sure that the current plan, depending on progress, is for them to eventually become shareholders and we'll hopefully be told as soon as that happens, until then just let them crack on!
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I dont know if we are all looking at this wrong but the 10,000,000 we can all see on companies house is the tidying up of 'Sunderland limited'. Now FPP has not invested in Sunderland limited, they have invested in Madrox Partners. Am I wrong in saying we need to wait on the updated files coming from Madrox partners to see exactly how much FPP have invested as I think that the money you can see in sunderland limited is nothing to do with FPP?
 
Left For Dead said:
Given the euphoria before they are bound to be downplaying everything now- it's not the investment but the intent that people should be excited about
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Exactly. It is highly unlikely that FPP have randomly decided to give us a loan, want it repaid with interest and then want to walk away. The intent is obviously there to get on board as shareholders eventually. The fact they're earmarking the loan to be spent on things that will give a long term benefit further strengthens that, if it was just a loan to be repaid they wouldn't care what it was spent on, they'd only want the repayment.

We just need to see this as a major positive, a big chance, and accept that we likely won't hear more until the end of the season at the earliest. It sounds like we've got major players invested in the club, it sounds like they've got the right idea in terms of getting recruitment and the academy right, it sounds like they're on board with the idea of sustainability which I've always agreed with and which makes them very good potential shareholders, the loan isn't creating a debt for SAFC, we've just got to trust the owners now and let them crack on. All we can do to help is get behind them all and give as much support as possible at the games
 
kildaremackem said:
because it takes time to hire good people..we had a few scouts last year..probably more than some league one clubs..
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are we saying that those hired thus far are not good people?
what Qualifies SD/CM to be those who know what 'good people' are
is it not possible we could just end up with more of their mates?
 
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6inarow said:
I dont know if we are all looking at this wrong but the 10,000,000 we can all see on companies house is the tidying up of 'Sunderland limited'. Now FPP has not invested in Sunderland limited, they have invested in Madrox Partners. Am I wrong in saying we need to wait on the updated files coming from Madrox partners to see exactly how much FPP have invested as I think that the money you can see in sunderland limited is nothing to do with FPP?
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Not sure on that side of things mate, but the 8 figure thing has been mentioned a fair bit, I'm sure in the Methven interview he mentioned investment approaching £10m, so I think we're safe to assume the investment is in that region. It also makes sense in that any more is probably overkill at this point! You can do a lot for recruitment and the academy with nearly £10m (even accepting that some is also going for the fan experience bit)
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
Exactly. It is highly unlikely that FPP have randomly decided to give us a loan, want it repaid with interest and then want to walk away. The intent is obviously there to get on board as shareholders eventually. The fact they're earmarking the loan to be spent on things that will give a long term benefit further strengthens that, if it was just a loan to be repaid they wouldn't care what it was spent on, they'd only want the repayment.

We just need to see this as a major positive, a big chance, and accept that we likely won't hear more until the end of the season at the earliest. It sounds like we've got major players invested in the club, it sounds like they've got the right idea in terms of getting recruitment and the academy right, it sounds like they're on board with the idea of sustainability which I've always agreed with and which makes them very good potential shareholders, the loan isn't creating a debt for SAFC, we've just got to trust the owners now and let them crack on. All we can do to help is get behind them all and give as much support as possible at the games
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But why?

We don't know the intentions and the goalposts are continually being moved, what good would blind faith do?
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
Not sure on that side of things mate, but the 8 figure thing has been mentioned a fair bit, I'm sure in the Methven interview he mentioned investment approaching £10m, so I think we're safe to assume the investment is in that region. It also makes sense in that any more is probably overkill at this point! You can do a lot for recruitment and the academy with nearly £10m (even accepting that some is also going for the fan experience bit)
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Yeah, I think its safe to say that it will be at least £10,000,000 as that is what has been stated - 8 figures. In addition Charlie did say that himself, SD & JS have put significant capital into the club which Im thinking is what is shown on Sunderland Limited accounts. You dont know but the FPP investment into Madrox could be more than this possibly, to match the shareholders and then some.
 
kildaremackem said:
but its not a loan to the club..so its irelevant to the club..in that sense..safc does not owe the money to anyone..safc assets are not sexcured against the loan..so there is no downside to safc for this loan..
the only downside is to the current owners..who would have to pay it back..

aye but mate tony coton and richard hill are shit like, and cheap options and it was much better before..
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Unless non payment results in ownership of the club, or it is in some way linked to shares in the club. Or any other myriad options that could result from it.
Are we really to believe that some American billionaires have loaned a company whose only purpose is to own SAFC but it’s nothing to do with the club and we shouldn’t be interested in it at all?
I’m not suggesting it’s in any way a bad thing for the club, but it’s not transparent and open imo.
 
Coeus said:
But why?

We don't know the intentions and the goalposts are continually being moved, what good would blind faith do?
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What reason is there to think otherwise? As mentioned they aren't a bank and i doubt they have any intention of becoming one, so what possible reason could they have for making the loan if it isn't the first stage of being further involved later? Regardless, it isn't creating a debt for SAFC so even just on it's own it's a major positive because the academy and recruitment are two of the main areas we're failing with at the minute and this should give them both a major boost. I would think the main reason they wouldn't get further involved would be if we continually failed to get out of this league, so of course the best thing we can do as supporters is give as much backing to the current owners and players as possible, we need to go up anyway and it'll likely fast track FPP being more officially involved. The alternative is to keep sniping and mistrusting and I really don't see how that helps in any way, shape or form
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
What reason is there to think otherwise? As mentioned they aren't a bank and i doubt they have any intention of becoming one, so what possible reason could they have for making the loan if it isn't the first stage of being further involved later? Regardless, it isn't creating a debt for SAFC so even just on it's own it's a major positive because the academy and recruitment are two of the main areas we're failing with at the minute and this should give them both a major boost. I would think the main reason they wouldn't get further involved would be if we continually failed to get out of this league, so of course the best thing we can do as supporters is give as much backing to the current owners and players as possible, we need to go up anyway and it'll likely fast track FPP being more officially involved. The alternative is to keep sniping and mistrusting and I really don't see how that helps in any way, shape or form
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And in reply, I don't see it as the purpose of the fans to act on blind faith when we have experience of being misled.

We don't know what the "investment" is for. We don't know how it could negatively impact the club. If it isn't creating a debt for us, then by the same token it doesn't have to be spent on us and the club is being used as collateral for something else.

Fact is, we don't know and until we do, I think its a bit rich to expect everyone to just clap along.
 
Coeus said:
And in reply, I don't see it as the purpose of the fans to act on blind faith when we have experience of being misled.

We don't know what the "investment" is for. We don't know how it could negatively impact the club. If it isn't creating a debt for us, then by the same token it doesn't have to be spent on us and the club is being used as collateral for something else.

Fact is, we don't know and until we do, I think its a bit rich to expect everyone to just clap along.
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Again, what is your alternative? Keep speculating, fearing the worst and sniping at the current owners? Will that foster the kind of atmosphere that gives us a chance of getting out of this league?

As for "the money might not be spent on us". Ha'way mate, these Americans are billionaires, they're hardly going to be daft enough to give money to Madrox (which has no assets other than SAFC) and allow it to be spent on anything other than the club. They're not exactly going to sit there and watch Methven spend it on a load of salmon pants! And even if they went mental and hadn't acted to prevent that, why would the owners not want to use it on the club? Getting us promoted and improving the club is the best way for them to make a hell of a lot of money down the line, they're hardly going to mess it up by pissing these blokes off.

There's asking valid questions and then there's just wanting to stir for the sake of it. I don't see how any rational fan can see this investment as anything other than a positive. I can fully understand why the Americans might not want their future plans being openly discussed, and can fully understand why our current owners would agree to that and not blab about it just to satisfy the curiosity of some of the fans. And again, going up is absolutely vital so even if the Americans just want some interest on a loan and to walk away (which won't be the case) we're still best off giving as much support as we can, we need to go up. We all wanted the owners to bring investment in, they have, from a very wealthy source, why is it so outlandish to give them the benefit of what is pretty small doubt at this stage?
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
Again, what is your alternative? Keep speculating, fearing the worst and sniping at the current owners? Will that foster the kind of atmosphere that gives us a chance of getting out of this league?

As for "the money might not be spent on us". Ha'way mate, these Americans are billionaires, they're hardly going to be daft enough to give money to Madrox (which has no assets other than SAFC) and allow it to be spent on anything other than the club. They're not exactly going to sit there and watch Methven spend it on a load of salmon pants! And even if they went mental and hadn't acted to prevent that, why would the owners not want to use it on the club? Getting us promoted and improving the club is the best way for them to make a hell of a lot of money down the line, they're hardly going to mess it up by pissing these blokes off.

There's asking valid questions and then there's just wanting to stir for the sake of it. I don't see how any rational fan can see this investment as anything other than a positive. I can fully understand why the Americans might not want their future plans being openly discussed, and can fully understand why our current owners would agree to that and not blab about it just to satisfy the curiosity of some of the fans. And again, going up is absolutely vital so even if the Americans just want some interest on a loan and to walk away (which won't be the case) we're still best off giving as much support as we can, we need to go up. We all wanted the owners to bring investment in, they have, from a very wealthy source, why is it so outlandish to give them the benefit of what is pretty small doubt at this stage?
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Why wouldn't a fan base speculate something that is unknown?

Does speculating have a negative impact upon the club?

Is it the speculating that is responsible for our mediocre performance as a club?

Is it the "atmosphere" that is responsible for getting promotion and are we solely responsible for creating it?

You're speculating in a positive manner towards the Americans intentions, which is fine. Personally, like the talk when we were being taken over and would battle the worlds elite, Ill wait and see what happens and wont be blamed for the clubs short coming, they are on them.

Speculate or clap, it doesn't make a jot of difference.
 
6inarow said:
I dont know if we are all looking at this wrong but the 10,000,000 we can all see on companies house is the tidying up of 'Sunderland limited'. Now FPP has not invested in Sunderland limited, they have invested in Madrox Partners. Am I wrong in saying we need to wait on the updated files coming from Madrox partners to see exactly how much FPP have invested as I think that the money you can see in sunderland limited is nothing to do with FPP?
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Exactly the point I've been trying to make. There have been no filings for Madrox. Of course, if FPP put money in there by means of an unsecured loan, there won't be any filings, and, as the transactions fall within the 19/20 financial year, we won't know anything until the accounts appear in 2021.
 
Coeus said:
But why?

We don't know the intentions and the goalposts are continually being moved, what good would blind faith do?
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Well i liked Blind Faith great live band,and i feel if we move the goalposts theres a better chance of grigginho scoring
 
Coeus said:
Why wouldn't a fan base speculate something that is unknown?

Does speculating have a negative impact upon the club?

Is it the speculating that is responsible for our mediocre performance as a club?

Is it the "atmosphere" that is responsible for getting promotion and are we solely responsible for creating it?

You're speculating in a positive manner towards the Americans intentions, which is fine. Personally, like the talk when we were being taken over and would battle the worlds elite, Ill wait and see what happens and wont be blamed for the clubs short coming, they are on them.

Speculate or clap, it doesn't make a jot of difference.
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Agree to disagree on this one I think! I believe that there has been a pretty bad/ negative atmosphere recently whilst the whole takeover/ investment thing has rumbled on. People have become a lot more critical of the ownership (not all without merit) and, imo, more frustrated with the on pitch stuff. Some of the main concerns regarding the owners were about the performance of the academy and the recruitment, they've now got investment which is being earmarked to try and address both, so for me that's got to be a positive.

Does it have an effect? Not really if its confined to here, but if it boils over and results in a less supportive atmosphere at the matches, or in people having a go at individual players like the arsehole giving Flanagan abuse then yes, I think it can be a negative. I'm not saying let's all clap and cheer and say everything is rosy, but for now they've succeeded in getting us investment from potential big players and they've probably given us all the information they are able to give. Again, of course it's up to you but personally I'd rather park my scepticism, not snipe at the owners, and reassess down the line after seeing if we can get up, and eventually how the investment seems to be impacting on the areas it is targeting (albeit they are more long term).
 
kildaremackem said:
£3m waz the fukk price for the shares..despite the myth making on here (npt helped by the owners to be fair) they paiid £15m for the shares...so juan's £3m is 20 per cent.
he would howvere have to put more in witht he other guys along the way..which has also hapepend
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I assume that you mean full price :)

I am unable to find the podcast / article in which SD clarified the purchase of the share but I did find a thread where it was discussed on here:

Juan Sartori

So has this guy got shares in us? Just wondered as haven't heard anything for a while. Think last thing I heard was that he is going through the process with the FA.
www.readytogo.net www.readytogo.net

Perhaps it was this I was thinking of, but at that time it was thought that the £3M was the initial payment, though I am still not certain what the final amount paid by Sartori was. I find it difficult to accept that he only paid £3M for 20% of the club.
So I think that I will just have to agree to disagree on this point.
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
Agree to disagree on this one I think! I believe that there has been a pretty bad/ negative atmosphere recently whilst the whole takeover/ investment thing has rumbled on. People have become a lot more critical of the ownership (not all without merit) and, imo, more frustrated with the on pitch stuff. Some of the main concerns regarding the owners were about the performance of the academy and the recruitment, they've now got investment which is being earmarked to try and address both, so for me that's got to be a positive.

Does it have an effect? Not really if its confined to here, but if it boils over and results in a less supportive atmosphere at the matches, or in people having a go at individual players like the arsehole giving Flanagan abuse then yes, I think it can be a negative. I'm not saying let's all clap and cheer and say everything is rosy, but for now they've succeeded in getting us investment from potential big players and they've probably given us all the information they are able to give. Again, of course it's up to you but personally I'd rather park my scepticism, not snipe at the owners, and reassess down the line after seeing if we can get up, and eventually how the investment seems to be impacting on the areas it is targeting (albeit they are more long term).
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That's fine mate, agree to disagree. We obviously have a different interpretation of events.
 
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