Newcastle FC (june/july2019)

[Grumpy Old Man]

Some people are going over the top but there’s a legitimate reason to be frustrated/upset.

Regardless of what the majority of this place thinks, Rafa Benitez is a very good manager and is probably the best we could have hoped for (I expect the standard Pardew 5th responses on the back of this from the usual suspects, ignoring the different circumstances - can’t be arsed) under the circumstances. He’s a genuinely decent bloke who is the antithesis of the current administration.

Quite a bit of it is the double-underlining of how Ashley wants to run the club as an ambitionless husk. Content with only finishing 17th every season with absolutely no will to progress beyond that point. Goes against what most consider as ‘sport’.

You've just described the Premier League. That's why many of us are in no hurry to get back there; if you aren't in the top 6, it's utter shite.

 

[Zak's Dad]

Some people are going over the top but there’s a legitimate reason to be frustrated/upset.

Regardless of what the majority of this place thinks, Rafa Benitez is a very good manager and is probably the best we could have hoped for (I expect the standard Pardew 5th responses on the back of this from the usual suspects, ignoring the different circumstances - can’t be arsed) under the circumstances. He’s a genuinely decent bloke who is the antithesis of the current administration. He’s stopped all of the injury crises we used to have and has got us defending better than I’ve ever seen.

Quite a bit of it though is the ‘double-underlining‘ of how Ashley wants to run the club as an ambitionless husk. Content with only finishing 17th every season with absolutely no will to progress beyond that point. Goes against what most consider as ‘sport’.

I don't mind any of that adult reasoned thought - have a like.

So what do you think his motives are?

Is he doing this to sell the club as stable or because he's winding you all up?

 

[Sima]

You've just described the Premier League. That's why many of us are in no hurry to get back there; if you aren't in the top 6, it's utter shite.

Not really. Other clubs in the division tend to have a semblance of ambition. Look at the money Bournemouth have thrown around. Add that to the likes of Crystal Palace, West Ham, etc.

Everton have spent £200m in the last couple of years too. Granted they sit in that grey area between 6th and the rest, mind.

You can have ambition and incremental progression with relatively moderate spending. Establishing yourself in the division then looking to kick on. You have to help yourself though by developing the academy and training ground to give you a chance.

Oh and a decent manager helps, too. Again not expecting agreement but we had that and more before the events of this week imo.

 

[Father Jack Hackett]

Some people are going over the top but there’s a legitimate reason to be frustrated/upset.

Regardless of what the majority of this place thinks, Rafa Benitez is a very good manager and is probably the best we could have hoped for (I expect the standard Pardew 5th responses on the back of this from the usual suspects, ignoring the different circumstances - can’t be arsed) under the circumstances. He’s a genuinely decent bloke who is the antithesis of the current administration. He’s stopped all of the injury crises we used to have and has got us defending better than I’ve ever seen.

Quite a bit of it though is the ‘double-underlining‘ of how Ashley wants to run the club as an ambitionless husk. Content with only finishing 17th every season with absolutely no will to progress beyond that point. Goes against what most consider as ‘sport’.

I agree he's a top manager (albeit a bit out of date these days) but, he's hardly pulled up any trees at your place - playing kids in the cups against lower league sides etc. I just don't get the unconditional adulation of a bloke who seemingly ran his contract down until is was evident he wasn't going to get wages only Guardiola betters.
Do you not think he was holding the club to ransom a tad, whilst using the good will of the fans as leverage? That would sour my opinion of him if it was SAFC.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Not really. Other clubs in the division tend to have a semblance of ambition. Look at the money Bournemouth have thrown around. Add that to the likes of Crystal Palace, West Ham, etc.

Everton have spent £200m in the last couple of years too. Granted they sit in that grey area between 6th and the rest, mind.

You can have ambition and incremental progression with relatively moderate spending. Establishing yourself in the division then looking to kick on. You have to help yourself though by developing the academy and training ground to give you a chance.

Oh and a decent manager helps, too. Again not expecting agreement but we had that and more before the events of this week imo.

Those spends will come back to bite those clubs on the arse, unless they can recoup most of it in sales (ideally you want transfer spend - operating profit - transfer income = 0; our old friend net spend). Each league place you improve only brings you an extra £2m in income. So, unless you're hitting those net spend numbers, you're storing up trouble for the future, because you'll have negative cash flow. Much as fans might hate finances intruding into sport, you simply can't ignore it.

 

[Sima]

I agree he's a top manager (albeit a bit out of date these days) but, he's hardly pulled up any trees at your place - playing kids in the cups against lower league sides etc. I just don't get the unconditional adulation of a bloke who seemingly ran his contract down until is was evident he wasn't going to get wages only Guardiola betters.

I can only speak for myself but I’m on the record criticising him on here so it’s not unconditional in my eyes.

His wages weren’t the issue as far as I am aware, he mentioned the training ground and the academy last season as areas that need investment. He likes an idea of a ‘project’ and building something which is not what Ashley is interested in. Bit daft really considering investing in facilities could bring him a few £15m+ players for years to come.

If he takes a job in China it doesn’t suddenly prove its ‘all about the money’ either as he reportedly could have taken jobs there in the past.

Those spends will come back to bite those clubs on the arse, unless they can recoup most of it in sales (ideally you want transfer spend - operating profit - transfer income = 0; our old friend net spend). Each league place you improve only brings you an extra £2m in income. So, unless you're hitting those net spend numbers, you're storing up trouble for the future, because you'll have negative cash flow. Much as fans might hate finances intruding into sport, you simply can't ignore it.

I’ve only cited those clubs as examples of spending not as a complete example to follow.

Like I said incremental spending (before Ashley took out his money - as is his right) we made a profit of over £50m last year so you can still spend £40m net comfortably with the current revenue on offer.

I don't mind any of that adult reasoned thought - have a like.

So what do you think his motives are?

Is he doing this to sell the club as stable or because he's winding you all up?

The latter. Definitely.

He has absolutely zero intention of selling as it currently stands in the top division and earning tens of millions in profit but he’s playing with fire removing a vital cog in keeping the team in the division with his running in the club being in direct contradiction with the ex-manager.

 

[tunstallhill]

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[Lss56]

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As if they will man.

 

[tunstallhill]

Some people are going over the top but there’s a legitimate reason to be frustrated/upset.

Regardless of what the majority of this place thinks, Rafa Benitez is a very good manager and is probably the best we could have hoped for (I expect the standard Pardew 5th responses on the back of this from the usual suspects, ignoring the different circumstances - can’t be arsed) under the circumstances. He’s a genuinely decent bloke who is the antithesis of the current administration. He’s stopped all of the injury crises we used to have and has got us defending better than I’ve ever seen.

Quite a bit of it though is the ‘double-underlining‘ of how Ashley wants to run the club as an ambitionless husk. Content with only finishing 17th every season with absolutely no will to progress beyond that point. Goes against what most consider as ‘sport’.

a reasoned response, however that last bit is contradictory. if he running the club within its means, as a self sufficient entity, then for me he is doing his job. what isnt a 'sport' is somebody buying a club, and spending their own personal fortune to buy success. if NUFC generates a £10million profit, then for me, that should be what the manager has to spend. if the owner wants to invest a little, say £20 million, he would then surely as a responsible owner of the club he shoyld expect the additional players that are signed to provide success on the field, therefore earning the club more money (the £20 million goes back in his pocket, the remaining goes onto buying more players - and so the cycle continues)

this is the big sticking point that no mag can actually explain. what the fuck do you want him to do? spend his own, personal money on buying the club success? that isn't 'sport' . the manager/procurement process has failed mike ashley massively in the last few years

 

[Father Jack Hackett]

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Yes lads, throw away large amounts of cash in loyalty bonuses to show you love the fans.
What planet are these people on man?

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

I can only speak for myself but I’m on the record criticising him on here so it’s not unconditional in my eyes.

His wages weren’t the issue as far as I am aware, he mentioned the training ground and the academy last season as areas that need investment. He likes an idea of a ‘project’ and building something which is not what Ashley is interested in. Bit daft really considering investing in facilities could bring him a few £15m+ players for years to come.

If he takes a job in China it doesn’t suddenly prove its ‘all about the money’ either as he reportedly could have taken jobs there in the past.



I’ve only cited those clubs as examples of spending not as a complete example to follow.

Like I said incremental spending (before Ashley took out his money - as is his right) we made a profit of over £50m last year so you can still spend £40m net comfortably with the current revenue on offer.

You didn't. Quoting here from the Newcastle United Limited statutory accounts for the year ended 31 May 2018 (the last ones published)

Operating profit £17.5m (2017 £90.9m loss)
Profits on player trading £3.6m (2017 £42.2m)
Profit before tax £22.9m (2017 £46.7m loss)
Profit after tax £18.6m (2017 £41.3m)

So the profits from your first year back in the PL covered less than half the losses you incurred getting there. That's why the investment hasn't been there - you;'d spent it all getting promoted. Just like we did in 2007, except we carried on spending and created a world of trouble for ourselves.

 

[Sima]

You didn't. Quoting here from the Newcastle United Limited statutory accounts for the year ended 31 May 2018 (the last ones published)

Operating profit £17.5m (2017 £90.9m loss)
Profits on player trading £3.6m (2017 £42.2m)
Profit before tax £22.9m (2017 £46.7m loss)
Profit after tax £18.6m (2017 £41.3m)

So the profits from your first year back in the PL covered less than half the losses you incurred getting there. That's why the investment hasn't been there - you;'d spent it all getting promoted. Just like we did in 2007, except we carried on spending and created a world of trouble for ourselves.

Did we pay back Ashley any money last year?

 

[Ghandi Floss]

Not really. Other clubs in the division tend to have a semblance of ambition. Look at the money Bournemouth have thrown around. Add that to the likes of Crystal Palace, West Ham, etc.

Everton have spent £200m in the last couple of years too. Granted they sit in that grey area between 6th and the rest, mind.

You can have ambition and incremental progression with relatively moderate spending. Establishing yourself in the division then looking to kick on. You have to help yourself though by developing the academy and training ground to give you a chance.

Oh and a decent manager helps, too. Again not expecting agreement but we had that and more before the events of this week imo.

So you are moaning about Ashley not spending enough money to compete with the likes of teams who have overspent to also finish mid table? You’ve basically just cemented his view without even realising it.

 

[Blond Bombshell]

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It's a plea?

 

[Sima]

So you are moaning about Ashley not spending enough money to compete with the likes of teams who have overspent to also finish mid table? You’ve basically just cemented his view without even realising it.

I think I’ve already said I don’t expect us to follow their plans verbatim. Haven’t I?

 

[Ghandi Floss]

That had nothing to do with Short going. What got Short out was SBC wanting their money back ASAP, and him cutting his losses as a result.

Gotta disagree. The low crowds, added to the fan petition, etc... also played a part in him selling up. No businessman wants to be associated with public failure and negativity.

I think I’ve already said I don’t expect us to follow their plans verbatim. Haven’t I?

Have you? I obviously don’t spend as much time reading through posts on here as you do.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Did we pay back Ashley any money last year?

No. £10m was "rolled" - ie repaid and immediately put back in. That's because there are actually two loans. A small one, which is a rolling one year loan (which is why it appears to go in and out, though I suspect the cash never moves at all in reality, and a larger one with no fixed repayment terms. He was repaid £15m in 2016/17, but that doesn't affect profit as it's a movement between two balance sheet items. It would, however, have impacted cash flow.

 

[Sima]

a reasoned response, however that last bit is contradictory. if he running the club within its means, as a self sufficient entity, then for me he is doing his job. what isnt a 'sport' is somebody buying a club, and spending their own personal fortune to buy success. if NUFC generates a £10million profit, then for me, that should be what the manager has to spend. if the owner wants to invest a little, say £20 million, he would then surely as a responsible owner of the club he shoyld expect the additional players that are signed to provide success on the field, therefore earning the club more money (the £20 million goes back in his pocket, the remaining goes onto buying more players - and so the cycle continues)

this is the big sticking point that no mag can actually explain. what the fuck do you want him to do? spend his own, personal money on buying the club success? that isn't 'sport' . the manager/procurement process has failed mike ashley massively in the last few years

Yes you could argue we’re paying for our big outlay in the championship (we tend to pay frees upfront but not as much as we used to) but now the money is going to be coming in more.

I do not expect him to spend his own money, no. More have a plan to move forward on an incremental basis and not sabotage that by frustrating the best manager we have had since Bobby Robson (again I expect the usual Pardew 5th responses to come).

 

[chriswallace85]

I agree he's a top manager (albeit a bit out of date these days) but, he's hardly pulled up any trees at your place - playing kids in the cups against lower league sides etc. I just don't get the unconditional adulation of a bloke who seemingly ran his contract down until is was evident he wasn't going to get wages only Guardiola betters.
Do you not think he was holding the club to ransom a tad, whilst using the good will of the fans as leverage? That would sour my opinion of him if it was SAFC.

Good post this. Echo a lot of my sentiments. Think @Sima has been suckered in there if you think Rafa ever fancied a "project" there. Bloke wants to manage in the CL and win trophies and probably wouldn't mind a crack at the Spain job. For that, he had to leave. Never intent on staying and certainly not a Georgie (eee lad ).

 

[Sima]

No. £10m was "rolled" - ie repaid and immediately put back in. That's because there are actually two loans. A small one, which is a rolling one year loan (which is why it appears to go in and out, though I suspect the cash never moves at all in reality, and a larger one with no fixed repayment terms. He was repaid £15m in 2016/17, but that doesn't affect profit as it's a movement between two balance sheet items. It would, however, have impacted cash flow.

Under ‘subsequent events’ on page seven of last year accounts it mentions a £33m payout to Mike Ashley.