• The first stage of the forum upgrades has now been completed but they remain in a degraded state and are still being worked on.
    Please read this thread for more details.
    New user registrations are currently disabled.

The 2018/19 accounts - the Grumpy take

Status
Not open for further replies.

citybythesea said:
Wasn't the hotel around that price? Still owned by Ellis Short?
Click to expand...

The hotel has always been entirely separate from the clubs. It's owned and run by an entirely different company, whose ultimate owner is Ellis Short. To make things clear, any shareholding relationship between the club and any company owned by short ended on 22 May 2018.

Far Tibetan Mountain said:
If the accounts are for the year till last April(2018,) SJD and Madrox partners wont be involved will they?
Click to expand...

That's what I said. The year end is 31 July. Because of their incorporation dates, Madrox and SJD aren't required to file accounts yet, and haven't. Madrox also has a different year end date. However, looking through the accounts of the other companies in the Sunderland Limited sub-group reveals that none of them owe that amount of money to SAFC Ltd. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that the money must be owed by either Madrox or SJD.

Guinness Guzzler said:
Grumps seems to be saying our year end is end of July
Click to expand...

It is, and has been for a number of years. Whether it should be is a different matter. most other clubs have May or June year ends. June is now the one that works best in aligning with transfer windows, ensuring that all transfers for a season are dealt with in one accounting period.
 
Last edited:
Grumpy Old Man said:
The hotel has always been entirely separate from the clubs. It's owned and run by an entirely different company, whose ultimate owner is Ellis Short. To make things clear, any shareholding relationship between the club and any company owned by short ended on 22 May 2018.



That's what I said. The year end is 31 July. Because of their incorporation dates, Madrox and SJD aren't required to file accounts yet, and haven't. Madrox also has a different year end date. However, looking through the accounts of the other companies in the Sunderland Limited sub-group reveals that none of them owe that amount of money to SAFC Ltd. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that the money must be owed by either Madrox or SJD.



It is, and has been for a number of years. Whether it should be is a different matter. most other clubs have May or June year ends. June is now the one that works best in aligning with transfer windows, ensuring that all transfers for a season are dealt with in one accounting period.
Click to expand...
thanks for that-but i thought SJD wasnt a group company?
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
It holds Donald's shares in Madrox. As Donald owns 94% of Madrox's shares, that makes Madrox a subsidiary of SJD. The fact that SJD has a registered office of the Stadium of Light is a bit of a giveaway too :)
Click to expand...
if donald owns 94 per cent of madrox..but not 94 per cent of the club..is the other 6 per cent of madrox representing charlies stake in the club, and juan owns his shares in the club seperately to madrox?
 
kildaremackem said:
if donald owns 94 per cent of madrox..but not 94 per cent of the club..is the other 6 per cent of madrox representing charlies stake in the club, and juan owns his shares in the club seperately to madrox?
Click to expand...

Madrox was set up 94% owned by Donald, 6% by Methven. It's not clear about Sartori. However, even at 74% or 80% owned by SJD, it remains an SJD subsidiary, albeit that the consolidated accounts of SJD will show a larger minority interest.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
It is, and has been for a number of years. Whether it should be is a different matter. most other clubs have May or June year ends. June is now the one that works best in aligning with transfer windows, ensuring that all transfers for a season are dealt with in one accounting period.
Click to expand...
(Another SMB accountant here, so seems there are a few of us :)) It does seem strange that our year-end is the end of July. It surely would be more logical like you say to align to the end of the season, given it is an industry with such a definitive 'period' in the form of a season.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
The hotel has always been entirely separate from the clubs. It's owned and run by an entirely different company, whose ultimate owner is Ellis Short. To make things clear, any shareholding relationship between the club and any company owned by short ended on 22 May 2018.



That's what I said. The year end is 31 July. Because of their incorporation dates, Madrox and SJD aren't required to file accounts yet, and haven't. Madrox also has a different year end date. However, looking through the accounts of the other companies in the Sunderland Limited sub-group reveals that none of them owe that amount of money to SAFC Ltd. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that the money must be owed by either Madrox or SJD.



It is, and has been for a number of years. Whether it should be is a different matter. most other clubs have May or June year ends. June is now the one that works best in aligning with transfer windows, ensuring that all transfers for a season are dealt with in one accounting period.
Click to expand...

Is it possible then that this money was loaned to them to make one of the payments to Ellis Short for ownership of the club?
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Possible, but not something I'd want to suggest without a lot of supporting evidence. It's just something I've flagged up for RAWA to ask about.
Click to expand...
is juans stake heald via a company that is also a group company?

Rizla said:
Is it possible then that this money was loaned to them to make one of the payments to Ellis Short for ownership of the club?
Click to expand...
it is among the more likely scenarios-but not the only one..
 
kildaremackem said:
they had at that date yes-may have paid it back since like..
Click to expand...

Would they not have said so if they had? I'm sure i read when the mags released their figures that the loans hadn't changed in the accounts but they confirmed they'd paid back Ashley since the end of the accounts?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top