A system set up to fail

[Coeus]

We are not SELLING them, they are not under contract and cannot be until they are 17. They are free to leave to any team who desires them, whenever they like; we are then awarded a compensation amount, and said players move from a League 1 team to (in this case) a PL one.


There were no 'offers' to accept or reject.

I believe us to have accepted offers as opposed to us being provided compensation, I'm happy to be shown otherwise and will accept it was out of our hands to a point.

One of the lads fathers has already said his son was open to staying but the club appeared keen for them to leave due to the fee.

when we are talking about giving the kids 3 or 4 hundred quid a week, and the Liverpools, city etc come along and say we will give you 2 grand a week, what chance gave we got ?
even the most servant safc fan would take the 2k a week at 16 year old, that's before you've even played a senior game. a 2 year deal sees your mortgage paid off for the rest of your life ! #nobrainer
this is what's going on ^ FACT

It's true that they can afford to write off those wages, but there are things we can offer that they cannot.

 

[wilberforce]

I believe us to have accepted offers as opposed to us being provided compensation, I'm happy to be shown otherwise and will accept it was out of our hands to a point.

One of the lads fathers has already said his son was open to staying but the club appeared keen for them to leave due to the fee.



It's true that they can afford to write off those wages, but there are things we can offer that they cannot.

we just aren't in a position to offer 15 year old unproven kids silly wages atm sadly, it's just where we are at the moment

 

[jaxaxe]

TLDR = Manager is immaterial. Owners and fans fault.

It was the fans' fault last two seasons as well, back when managers were inept, goalkeepers were shit, and many of the players couldn't give a flying toss, and others staggered around the pitch seemingly oblivious to the football match that was going on around them.

 

[Coeus]

we just aren't in a position to offer 15 year old unproven kids silly wages atm sadly, it's just where we are at the moment

I understand that point of view and the difficulties, I'm making assumptions as all of us on the outside are but could we have done more, could we set out a guideline of how we are going to incorporate them into the first team. According to all I have heard from the top brass is that this isn't possible.

 

[ontap]

“Sell off the youngsters for low fee's while panic buying a striker at well over value.”

You seriously think that was the plan?

You’ve undermined your entire post there mate.

Beat me to it , that statement ridicules the entire OP. What utter tosh.

 

[Coeus]

It was the fans' fault last two seasons as well, back when managers were inept, goalkeepers were shit, and many of the players couldn't give a flying toss, and others staggered around the pitch seemingly oblivious to the football match that was going on around them.

I know mate, that bit was tongue in cheek. We've had to put up with some terrible stuff.

I think what I alluding to is the "something wrong in the club" that has been spoken off. Something that is difficult to change but unless it is pinpointed will always remain or at least continue to surface.

Beat me to it , that statement ridicules the entire OP. What utter tosh.

I don't understand why, ive asked for clarification. I think wires are crossed probably by me not explaining my point very well.

As for the tosh, then it's not an opinion held by you, that's fine.

 

[billyboy]

I’m not disagreeing with your post, however it’s 11 points off top.

Gaps getting wider and thats the worry!

 

[dcl0sc]

I'm sorry you've lost me?

What part have I undermined?

Regardless of any plan, they have sold off the kids and overpaid for a striker. I believe they have done so because all-encompassing importance placed on now.

Our current regime had to somehow pick up the pieces of the cluster-fuck left from the previous regime.

Do you really think Stewart Donald was happy selling Asoro and Maja for such low fees?

The fees reflected the ineptitude of Bain et al, They ran this club like Billy Smarts Circus!

So to answer my question on your behalf "Of course NOT"!

 

[Coeus]

Our current regime had to somehow pick up the pieces of the cluster-fuck left from the previous regime.

Do you really think Stewart Donald was happy selling Asoro and Maja for such low fees?

The fees reflected the ineptitude of Bain et al, They ran this club like Billy Smarts Circus!

So to answer my question on your behalf "Of course NOT"!

I was alluding to the youth players when I said kids as opposed to the first teamers. I'm well aware of what they have had to put with and I applaud them for doing so, I'm very grateful. This is not a slant on their intentions or the difficulty of the job, it is my point of view on what the future holds unless everyone's (owners to fans) point of view changes.

 

[dcl0sc]

I was alluding to the youth players when I said kids as opposed to the first teamers. I'm well aware of what they have had to put with and I applaud them for doing so, I'm very grateful. This is not a slant on their intentions or the difficulty of the job, it is my point of view on what the future holds unless everyone's (owners to fans) point of view changes.

Which youth players has he sold off cheap?

 

[Ilios]

I believe us to have accepted offers as opposed to us being provided compensation

That's the problem. That isn't the case, and it can't be, as the player must be 17 and under contract in order for the club to receive an offer. The club has no offer to reject prior to their 17th birthday, which is why Bali Mumba signed immediately after turning 17.

Under 17s being poached is functionally identical to what would have happened with Maja in thr summer - just the compensation is a little bit different and we can offer financial incentives to Maja.

 

[Coeus]

Which youth players has he sold off cheap?

Stephenson and 4 others, I didn't say on the cheap mind, low fees though (-500k).

 

[martinlumley]

We are not SELLING them, they are not under contract and cannot be until they are 17. They are free to leave to any team who desires them, whenever they like; we are then awarded a compensation amount, and said players move from a League 1 team to (in this case) a PL one.


There were no 'offers' to accept or reject.

exactly, OP needs to grasp the fact that thousand of young kids trying to make it in the game move around football clubs all the time, some make it, lots don't. Maja was at another 2 acadamies at least before he came to us, its happens every day at every club.

 

[Coeus]

That's the problem. That isn't the case, and it can't be, as the player must be 17 and under contract in order for the club to receive an offer. The club has no offer to reject prior to their 17th birthday, which is why Bali Mumba signed immediately after turning 17.

Under 17s being poached is functionally identical to what would have happened with Maja in thr summer - just the compensation is a little bit different and we can offer financial incentives to Maja.

I understand that a player can move without having a bid accepted but I don't think a player must be 17 to be to be able to bid.

A transfer fee, which is what I believe we received from Liverpool alleviates the need for compensation set by a third party.

 

[dcl0sc]

Stephenson and 4 others, I didn't say on the cheap mind, low fees though (-500k).

They were under 16, I'm sure there's nothing we can do to stop them leaving! Greenwood wanted to join Arsenal, as would Stephenson have wanted to join Liverpool.

 

[Coeus]

exactly, OP needs to grasp the fact that thousand of young kids trying to make it in the game move around football clubs all the time, some make it, lots don't. Maja was at another 2 acadamies at least before he came to us, its happens every day at every club.

Id like to think I have somewhat of an understanding. In Maja's case, we took a chance and I don't think his career would be what it is now if we hadn't dropped so rapidly. He would not have played in the premiership which the two clubs who didn't provide a contract were In I believe.

 

[ontap]

I know mate, that bit was tongue in cheek. We've had to put up with some terrible stuff.

I think what I alluding to is the "something wrong in the club" that has been spoken off. Something that is difficult to change but unless it is pinpointed will always remain or at least continue to surface.



I don't understand why, ive asked for clarification. I think wires are crossed probably by me not explaining my point very well.

As for the tosh, then it's not an opinion held by you, that's fine.

We were reported to be after Grigg long before the end of the window , he is a proven highly rated striker at the level we are playing , how is that a panic buy ? The deal financially appears to be a good one for both parties , the majority of the 4m is subject to various addon criteria as well.
As for selling off kids cheap ? Thats another mis statement , am not sure how much we got for Maja ( atm a div1 striker with potential to be a championship player maybe ? ) , 4 or even 2m , doesn't sound bad business to me.

 

[Coeus]

They were under 16, I'm sure there's nothing we can do to stop them leaving! Greenwood wanted to join Arsenal, as would Stephenson have wanted to join Liverpool.

If the player wanted to leave, then there is nothing we could have done to stop them, I understand this. I'm just not sure that we did all we could to keep them, especially as Stephensons dad said we didn't appear to want to keep them due to the fee.

 

[Ilios]

I understand that a player can move without having a bid accepted but I don't think a player must be 17 to be to be able to bid.

A transfer fee, which is what I believe we received from Liverpool alleviates the need for compensation set by a third party.

If that has happened, then Liverpool have made an illegal approach (again) based on financial incentives for a non-contractual minor.

 

[Coeus]

We were reported to be after Grigg long before the end of the window , he is a proven highly rated striker at the level we are playing , how is that a panic buy ? The deal financially appears to be a good one for both parties , the majority of the 4m is subject to various addon criteria as well.
As for selling off kids cheap ? Thats another mis statement , am not sure how much we got for Maja ( atm a div1 striker with potential to be a championship player maybe ? ) , 4 or even 2m , doesn't sound bad business to me.

I understand we wanted Grigg, however paying whatever the selling club wanted with minutes to spare is what I am categorising a panic buy.

I said the youth players for low fee's, I did not mean Maja, I have no problem with the difficulties that instance provided.

If that has happened, then Liverpool have made an illegal approach (again) based on financial incentives for a non-contractual minor.

So we disagree on being able to bid for players under 17 then. Can't find anything categorical on google.