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VARguments

This is a game man. Has monopoly changed over the years, have they introduced VAR? Nope.

I think tbf mate the Rugby comparison is a better one than monopoly!

I was originally against VAR at the start because I just thought mistakes by players and refs are just part of the game and should be accepted as such.

However mistakes are not accepted now and people who make honest decisions are called cheats biased and all sorts of shit just for making honest mistakes in extremely proven diffcult circumstances, that should be accepted as just football because like you say it’s just a game.

Rightly or wrongly it has become bigger than just a game sadly and as such fairer correct decisions are needed and the only way to do that is VAR.
 
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While far from perfect,it surely cannot be argued that with it we would get more fairer decisions than without it, a lot more imo than the 2% quoted in the last post?

It also surely can’t be argued with what we watch either at the ground or on the telly each week that refs need help?

Diving for example for pens by players would be much easier to spot and VAR will get better as it as time goes on.

What is clear in my mind without a shadow of a doubt is without it games that could cost clubs millions,will be decided by a person who clearly has not got the tools to do the job!



Correct! It’s called progress!

bollocks is it. why do people who support it keep conveniently forgetting to debate the main issue that those against it bring up? the spontaneously and raw emotion of football - this is much more integral to the very essence of the game that getting every single decision right. you could have robots playing and have 100% decision making correct, which you would obviously love, but have every drop of emotion taken out of the game, and it would render the whole sport not worth watching anymore.

yes referee decision making is important, without a doubt. its very high on the priority list, but it will never be more important the feeling of raw emotion from the crowd. take away the latter, and no one will even turn up anymore to give a flying fuck about whether martyn waghorn was 0.4mm offside in a FA cup 3rd round replay.

do you agree, or not, that it will kill the game, from a match going supporters emotional point of view?

I think tbf mate the Rugby comparison is a better one than monopoly!

I was originally against VAR at the start because I just thought mistakes by players and refs are just part of the game and should be accepted as such.

However mistakes are not accepted now and people who make honest decisions are called cheats biased and all sorts of shit just for making honest mistakes in extremely proven diffcult circumstances, that should be accepted as just football because like you say it’s just a game.

Rightly or wrongly it has become bigger than just a game sadly and as such fairer correct decisions are needed and the only way to do that is VAR.

yes they are. people go off it at the match, talk about it in the pub after, post rants on online forums the next day, then generally forget about it by next saturday. it has never changed for the fans.

the only thing that has changed, is that someone, somewhere in the upper echelons of the footballing establishment, has realised there is some money to made through this, and that is the top and bottom of why it is being introduced.

i notice they arent bothered about 'fair play' when it comes to diving (great talking points for the media, stir up column inches) or bothered about 'fair play' when it comes to how many players man city and chelsea can have on their books, and play weakened teams in cup competitions, or bothered about bringing in safe standing (which the overwhelming majority of football fans want) or lowering ticket prices, or the price of a kid being a mascot, i notice they aren't too bothered about those things
 
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bollocks is it. why do people who support it keep conveniently forgetting to debate the main issue that those against it bring up? the spontaneously and raw emotion of football - this is much more integral to the very essence of the game that getting every single decision right. you could have robots playing and have 100% decision making correct, which you would obviously love, but have every drop of emotion taken out of the game, and it would render the whole sport not worth watching anymore.

yes referee decision making is important, without a doubt. its very high on the priority list, but it will never be more important the feeling of raw emotion from the crowd. take away the latter, and no one will even turn up anymore to give a flying fuck about whether martyn waghorn was 0.4mm offside in a FA cup 3rd round replay.

do you agree, or not, that it will kill the game, from a match going supporters emotional point of view?

Tbf mate I see your point to a certain extent and it could take away the level of emotion when a goal is scored that is no doubt.

However based of other sports where it has been inroduced the emotion is still there when try scored or wicket given for example and will still be there for a goal scored under VAR despite a wait, so with respect saying it will kill the game is over the top imo.

As for your other point guess it’s a matter of opinion what is more important, the high emotion of instant celebration or fairer correct decisions?

Guess that’s the debate certainly respect where you coming from.

I do think those that don’t want VAR should not twist when decisions go against them and just accept that as part and parcel of football.
 
Tbf mate I see your point to a certain extent and it could take away the level of emotion when a goal is scored that is no doubt.

However based of other sports where it has been inroduced the emotion is still there when try scored or wicket given for example and will still be there for a goal scored under VAR despite a wait, so with respect saying it will kill the game is over the top imo.

As for your other point guess it’s a matter of opinion what is more important, the high emotion of instant celebration or fairer correct decisions?

Guess that’s the debate certainly respect where you coming from.

I do think those that don’t want VAR should not twist when decisions go against them and just accept that as part and parcel of football.

that is exactly my stance. i got over the Luton penalty by 5.10pm.

comparing it to other sports is pointless in my opinion. in cricket, it works with the flow of the game, and the decision is black and white. and as said above, a lot of rugby fans don't like it. plus there is a different flow to a rugby game, a different emotional attachment.

i honestly can't believe any match going football supporter can actually see this as progress.
 
Tbf mate I see your point to a certain extent and it could take away the level of emotion when a goal is scored that is no doubt.

However based of other sports where it has been inroduced the emotion is still there when try scored or wicket given for example and will still be there for a goal scored under VAR despite a wait, so with respect saying it will kill the game is over the top imo.

As for your other point guess it’s a matter of opinion what is more important, the high emotion of instant celebration or fairer correct decisions?

Guess that’s the debate certainly respect where you coming from.

I do think those that don’t want VAR should not twist when decisions go against them and just accept that as part and parcel of football.

It's not other sports though.

Rugby and especially cricket are totally different beasts, and only have a fraction of the fans football does.
 
that is exactly my stance. i got over the Luton penalty by 5.10pm.

comparing it to other sports is pointless in my opinion. in cricket, it works with the flow of the game, and the decision is black and white. and as said above, a lot of rugby fans don't like it. plus there is a different flow to a rugby game, a different emotional attachment.

i honestly can't believe any match going football supporter can actually see this as progress.

Can see your point mate, wish everyone got over it by the next day never mind 5 10!

As several others actually remember bad decisions years later!

And if a coincidence happens where the same ref gives bad decisions amazingly some claim he is biased against Sunderland and is a cheat and has a agenda against us!
 
That sounds commendable except if it was your team which was unfairly judged. Can you imagine losing to an incorrect decision in a Championship play-off final which would bring untold wealth to the successful team via promotion to the Premiership? It to lose in the World Cup to a cheat’s ‘hand of God’ hand ball?
We cannot go back to the old days otherwise we would still play on muddy fields, use lace-up balls and the rest of it. VAR will improve the game and will be accepted more readily with greater refinement of the technology and the time it takes to judge controversial decisions.
I can imagine all that & so what? Its sport, not life & death. If a player misses a sitter should we go back & give him another go or keepers cocking up dropping the ball have skinchies? I realise I'm a bit of a dinosaur & just want sport to be live & enjoyed/hated for that, not dissected clinically & we all clap politely when the midgies gonad hair offside rules out a goal...
 
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Can see your point mate, wish everyone got over it by the next day never mind 5 10!

As several others actually remember bad decisions years later!

And if a coincidence happens where the same ref gives bad decisions amazingly some claim he is biased against Sunderland and is a cheat and has a agenda against us!

thats part of the game for me though, the pantomime villains, the rivalries, the history.

the hand of god is one of the most iconic sporting moments of all time, whether it was legal or not, its adds to the mystique of the game
 
It's not other sports though.

Rugby and especially cricket are totally different beasts, and only have a fraction of the fans football does.

That does not mean they not just as passionate?

I think it’s a tad disrespectful to say rugby fans who travel over the other side of the world to watch England or the Lions are not as passionate as football fans which had been said before.

Football has no more right to anymore passionate than other sports fans surely?
 
I see or not in this case. 99% of goals will be scored and nowt said.

Subjective decisions such as penalties will take time to resolve and has been the case in the past, the onfield ref will either stick with his original decision or choose to change his mind, when reviewing the incident

That’s how it was in the World Cup, the problem currently is the total incompetence of the English officials currently failing to use the system correctly

One other thing re kissing strangers, do you advocate doing this regularly?
Thats not true though is it, every goal last night was studied by VAR and their was a delay with every goal. It will become 2nd nature to not celebrate and wait for the ref to say it is a goal/no goal.
 
thats part of the game for me though, the pantomime villains, the rivalries, the history.

the hand of god is one of the most iconic sporting moments of all time, whether it was legal or not, its adds to the mystique of the game

But it not part of the game for others, if most fans were like you it would not be a problem but don’t think they are mate
 
You have, but I quote as I go so hadn't got that far. I'd asked you a couple of times earlier this evening with no response.

As I said with my edit, you seem to be now shifting the goalposts. We've had this debate before where you were adamant the ref had the final say, but that's been shown not to be true in a number of instances in the past couple of weeks. I know I'm kind of repeating what @tunstallhill said earlier here.

The ref has the final say where it's a matter of opinion. Offside is considered, rightly or wrongly, to be a matter of fact, and for offside decisions, the onfield ref is told the decision to give.
 
Thats not true though is it, every goal last night was studied by VAR and their was a delay with every goal. It will become 2nd nature to not celebrate and wait for the ref to say it is a goal/no goal.

People who like VAR have a severe form of OCD in my opinion ...

... absolutely no room for spontaneity, nothing left to the slightest chance and no knives in the fork drawer :lol:
 
That does not mean they not just as passionate?

I think it’s a tad disrespectful to say rugby fans who travel over the other side of the world to watch England or the Lions are not as passionate as football fans which had been said before.

Football has no more right to anymore passionate than other sports fans surely?

I didn't mention passion, just popularity.

But football certainly has a bigger tribal element than those sports which feeds from the spontaneity of the game.
 
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