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Racist away fans (again)

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i am will said:
In the late 70s and early 80s I thought it was ok to abuse a black player...up until the time I started to understand it wasn't ok...maybe whoever said it just hasn't been educated yet...how old was he ?
I'm more concerned by the fact that had it been a banana he wouldn't have controlled that either !
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I was just about to say the same myself - I could have been regarded as racist in the 70s, but I grew up and realised the error of my ways. It isn't the 70s any more and we are a better society for it.

I find it hard to believe that anyone can defend the comments that were made, and I also find it odd that people are in total denial that we have racist and sectarian fans in our midst. Yes they are a very small minority, but anyone who goes to a match (particularly away ones) and isn't profoundly deaf must surely have heard them? It would appear that several of them are also posting on this thread!
 

offmenut said:
I’m not surprised.
I actually explained it to you aswell.
You can’t lump people together under a blanket stereotype.
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What was the stereotype? I only said blacks. They are black.
Same as whites. What’s the stereotype if they are white?
That’s their colour ffs!
What next not being able to say ‘blokes’ or ‘women’!
 
sir rowell cummins said:
Why all the left wing comments ? Is commenting on a racist slur left wing bullshit ? Plenty of / most conservatives will be anti racist are they not ? Let’s be honest there has been organised right wing racism in Sunderland (the town) in recent times , organised to coincide with home games it seems so people can do both. So it’s a risk to us and important that the respectful majority work hard to drown it out and create something healthy for our kids to identify with where people are just people and players are just ‘our’ players whatever their skin colour. In my humble opinion.
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Exactly. It's got fuck all to do with any political alignment. They must have been reading American forums were the words lefty/righty/liberal gets thrown around in every sentence these days.
 
Mrjardine said:
My agreement to that is that I don’t find it offensive and believe that as a society we are now brainwashed into thinking it is.

Blacks don’t look like monkeys, they aren’t behind whites in terms of evolving and we are all very much equal.

Now because that is my view I find comments like that to be a bit ‘gallows humour’ if you like and no more offensive than somebody shouting Quasimodo at Peter Beardsley.

Now because I’m not an idiot I’m aware of what society will dictate is the worst of the two comments but that doesn’t mean I need to be offended for the sake of it.
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It's got nothing to do with being an idiot or an awareness of what society dictates, it's about the intent and meaning behind those two comments.
How can you see it as gallows humour, due to your 'view', when you know that the comments are made by those with diametrically opposed views (otherwise why would they be making them?) and with an intention to undermine your view as you've stated it?

Mrjardine said:
Much the same as you do on the opposite side.
Let’s be honest there’s a queue a mile long to shout down any alleged racism towards blacks.
It’s an ever so slightly shorter one on the other side of fence so I enjoy pointing out the hypocrisy when opportunity arises.
The idiots shouting racist are pathetic given I’m actually advocating both blacks and whites being no different.
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I agree there and think that's the utopia that every right thinking person, of any colour or creed, should be striving for. But that's not the situation as it stands and until/unless it is then I think comments like that in the OP can't continue to be condoned as you are doing.
 
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Mrjardine said:
My agreement to that is that I don’t find it offensive and believe that as a society we are now brainwashed into thinking it is.

Blacks don’t look like monkeys, they aren’t behind whites in terms of evolving and we are all very much equal.

Now because that is my view I find comments like that to be a bit ‘gallows humour’ if you like and no more offensive than somebody shouting Quasimodo at Peter Beardsley.

Now because I’m not an idiot I’m aware of what society will dictate is the worst of the two comments but that doesn’t mean I need to be offended for the sake of it.
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Society is not brainwashed into justifying the Atlantic slave trade because north africans did it first.
but you are.
It is both historically incorrect and racist.
 
Howard the Duck said:
It's got nothing to do with being an idiot or an awareness of what society dictates, it's about the intent and meaning behind those two comments.
How can you see it as gallows humour, due to your 'view', when you know that the comments are made by those with diametrically opposed views (otherwise why would they be making them?) and with an intention to undermine your view as you've stated it?


I agree there and think that's the utopia that every right thinking person, of any colour or creed, should be striving for. But that's not the situation as it stands and until/unless it is then I think comments like that in the OP can't continue to be condoned as you are doing.
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I don’t think we are as far from that ‘utopia’ as people make out.
 
worcestermakem said:
Society is not brainwashed into justifying the Atlantic slave trade because north africans did it first.
but you are.
It is both historically incorrect and racist.
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Both are confined to history and I’m stating both are and were wrong.
Time to move on I’m merely pointing out that white people have also been victims of slavery which a lot of people don’t like to accept.
 
Mrjardine said:
I don’t think we are as far from that ‘utopia’ as people make out.
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When we compare the world today to what it was, say, only 40 or 50 years ago then monumental progress has been made. We're not there though and there's still a way to go and I would say that comments like that in the OP and a failure to condemn them as you're advocating is only going to undermine any further progress.
 
toosb said:
Not really that odd. Most stewards would do FA about it and it would be difficult to prove. Not sure many other fans would back him up.

It's casual racism. Cringeworthy, embarrassing. Something maybe your grandad would have said, but often in a harmless way.

Not sure it's worthy of getting angry about.
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Reading some posts and amazed at one or two who mentioned the "pit villagers" in the way they did basically putting them in the same category as racist bigot. Irony.


The op mentions someone referencing a banana towards a black player and (quite rightly) being shouted down by others and told to fook off.

Now lets be honest, who here doesn't hear racist comments from time to time ? Some black people make them at whites.

Banana comments etc are aimed at dehumanising black people but some think bananas are a reference to the fact they are grown in hot countries, whilst still racist it is obviously less so like potatoes grown in Ireland.

I am not defending it but what i will say is there are different levels of racism imo.
Those that make remarks etc but in jest, cringeworthy, out of order etc.
Then there are pure haters, people who look on other race/creed/colour etc as sub human.

Some people don't know they are making them, or others look to try and pick them out from nothing especially in this day and age of over pc bollocks where sometimes even innocent remarks are misconstrued as racism.

Let me give an example. An asian lad i worked with years ago had been working abroad and when he returned i commented "it must of been hot as you've got a tan"
One or two lads hit the racist button but soon shut up when he laughed and took his watch off to reveal a lighter strap mark.

A black mate of mine once said he wouldn't mind if i called him a ni**er.
I was shocked and said i would never call him that but then if he called me honky i wouldn't be upset and find it funny so i could see where he was coming from.

That said i can understand a black persons point of view having been a minority and getting abuse at school or work for example.


The bottom line is people are people and colour is only skin deep.
Some dafty making a racist comment is bang out of order but ffs some would have him hung drawn and quartered
 
Nig said:
Reading some posts and amazed at one or two who mentioned the "pit villagers" in the way they did basically putting them in the same category as racist bigot. Irony.


The op mentions someone referencing a banana towards a black player and (quite rightly) being shouted down by others and told to fook off.

Now lets be honest, who here doesn't hear racist comments from time to time ? Some black people make them at whites.

Banana comments etc are aimed at dehumanising black people but some think bananas are a reference to the fact they are grown in hot countries, whilst still racist it is obviously less so like potatoes grown in Ireland.

I am not defending it but what i will say is there are different levels of racism imo.
Those that make remarks etc but in jest, cringeworthy, out of order etc.
Then there are pure haters, people who look on other race/creed/colour etc as sub human.

Some people don't know they are making them, or others look to try and pick them out from nothing especially in this day and age of over pc bollocks where sometimes even innocent remarks are misconstrued as racism.

Let me give an example. An asian lad i worked with years ago had been working abroad and when he returned i commented "it must of been hot as you've got a tan"
One or two lads hit the racist button but soon shut up when he laughed and took his watch off to reveal a lighter strap mark.

A black mate of mine once said he wouldn't mind if i called him a ni**er.
I was shocked and said i would never call him that but then if he called me honky i wouldn't be upset and find it funny so i could see where he was coming from.

That said i can understand a black persons point of view having been a minority and getting abuse at school or work for example.


The bottom line is people are people and colour is only skin deep.
Some dafty making a racist comment is bang out of order but ffs some would have him hung drawn and quartered
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Very good post actually.
 
Mrjardine said:
What was the stereotype? I only said blacks. They are black.
Same as whites. What’s the stereotype if they are white?
That’s their colour ffs!
What next not being able to say ‘blokes’ or ‘women’!
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I think most people would find it de humanising.
The blacks, the gays , the Jews’
Preferable to use ‘people’ in there.

Goes back to outdated slogans such as ‘no blacks’
Sounds divisive and assumes all people in the group are the same.

If you think ‘blacks’ sounds as nice as ‘black people’ carry on.
You don’t think that anyone should be offended by putting a black person and a banana together mind !
 
offmenut said:
I think most people would find it de humanising.
The blacks, the gays , the Jews’
Preferable to use ‘people’ in there.

Goes back to outdated slogans such as ‘no blacks’
Sounds divisive and assumes all people in the group are the same.

If you think ‘blacks’ sounds as nice as ‘black people’ carry on.
You don’t think that anyone should be offended by putting a black person and a banana together mind !
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If I’m talking about a group of people who are ‘black’ or ‘white’ and refer to them as ‘blacks’ or ‘whites’ then they are all the same as they are black or white.
There’s only an issue if you want to make one.
 
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Mrjardine said:
If I’m talking about a group of people who are ‘black’ or ‘white’ and refer to them as ‘blacks’ or ‘whites’ then they are all the same as they are black or white.
There’s only an issue if you want to make one.
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Carry on using it then, in the knowledge that quite a lot of people will find it offensive.
That would say a lot about you.
 
Nig said:
Reading some posts and amazed at one or two who mentioned the "pit villagers" in the way they did basically putting them in the same category as racist bigot. Irony.


The op mentions someone referencing a banana towards a black player and (quite rightly) being shouted down by others and told to fook off.

Now lets be honest, who here doesn't hear racist comments from time to time ? Some black people make them at whites.

Banana comments etc are aimed at dehumanising black people but some think bananas are a reference to the fact they are grown in hot countries, whilst still racist it is obviously less so like potatoes grown in Ireland.

I am not defending it but what i will say is there are different levels of racism imo.
Those that make remarks etc but in jest, cringeworthy, out of order etc.
Then there are pure haters, people who look on other race/creed/colour etc as sub human.

Some people don't know they are making them, or others look to try and pick them out from nothing especially in this day and age of over pc bollocks where sometimes even innocent remarks are misconstrued as racism.

Let me give an example. An asian lad i worked with years ago had been working abroad and when he returned i commented "it must of been hot as you've got a tan"
One or two lads hit the racist button but soon shut up when he laughed and took his watch off to reveal a lighter strap mark.

A black mate of mine once said he wouldn't mind if i called him a ni**er.
I was shocked and said i would never call him that but then if he called me honky i wouldn't be upset and find it funny so i could see where he was coming from.

That said i can understand a black persons point of view having been a minority and getting abuse at school or work for example.


The bottom line is people are people and colour is only skin deep.
Some dafty making a racist comment is bang out of order but ffs some would have him hung drawn and quartered
Click to expand...
Another bloke defending racism. Even picked a deliberately ‘cheeky’ username.

Sad
 
I have tried not to get entrenched in this dialogue as I tend to comment on everything pertaining to race. The anti-racists are in my book correct as they would be and the racists as always show their true colours . Same individuals as always on both camps. Just for the record I stand firmly with the anti-racists. What really pisses me off is those who castigate those who flag up inappropriate bigoted behaviour ! Racism in any form is wrong and never funny or amusing. The racist comment at the match which launched this thread should really have been addressed at the match.
Just a thought on the Barbary pirates who dabbled in slavery around the med were a mixed bag of moors, Arabs and Mediterranean Europeans. In fact an infamous Barbary pirate was an Englishman and Muslim convert I believe was called John Bird, of whom the Jack Sparrow character was based.
There is no comparison with the enslavement of African people and the transatlantic slave trade. Whereby some 15 million people over a 400 year period were taken against their will across the water in the most inhumane conditions we could never ever imagine. Treated as commodities and stripped of their identities and culture , brutalised and abused and contributing to the rise of capitalism as we know it today . Given this as a backdrop , throwing the man a banana is not terribly funny....
 
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