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Fourth Test Team

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smoker said:
Apologies, only 17:

James Anderson
Fred Trueman
Bob Willis
Jon Snow
Frank Tyson
Harold Larwood
Alec Bedser
Sydney Barnes
Ian Botham
Brian Statham
Simon Jones
John Lever
Tony Lock
Bill Voce
Ken Higgs
Dean Headley
Vallance Jupp

I thought it would be pushing it to make a case for Gough, Caddick or Hoggard but there must be at least three boys from the early years.

Broad has been picked consistently for over ten years and consequently has 427 wickets. That does not make him "one of the best of all time". He actually has very similar average and strike rate to Dominic Cork.
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So do you mean better over their career or a better bowler at their best - in which case you have to compare their best with Stuart Broad's best.

Take Simon Jones, good bowler and a shame he was crippled with injury but 58 wickets and 3 5-fers cannot compare to all the wickets Broad has and he has 16 5-fers and 2 10-fers.
 

Bri said:
So do you mean better over their career or a better bowler at their best - in which case you have to compare their best with Stuart Broad's best.

Take Simon Jones, good bowler and a shame he was crippled with injury but 58 wickets and 3 5-fers cannot compare to all the wickets Broad has and he has 16 5-fers and 2 10-fers.
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At his best, Broad is easily as good as the top 10 in that list and I would add George Lohmann from back in the day. Broad's 8-15 is arguably the best ever spell from an England quick. When Broad is good, he is unplayable.
 
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Really looking forward to this test, the Indians are clearly up for the fight now. Could be a belting Test Series......
 
Comeback_Kenwyne said:
Can I belatedly throw my own :lol: at Dean Hedley.

Haway @smoker you've had a f***ing mare here.
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Headley was an outstanding, underrated player whose career was curtailed by terrible luck with injuries.

rentaghost said:
Or 10 English county bowlers better than Chris Woakes while he’s at it!
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You really are boring as fuck with that patter mind. At the time of writing anyone could easily have named ten better seamers in the county game.
 
smoker said:
Headley was an outstanding, underrated player whose career was curtailed by terrible luck with injuries.



You really are boring as fuck with that patter mind. At the time of writing anyone could easily have named ten better seamers in the county game.
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Just digging a bigger hole for yourself marra ,by keeping suggesting Headley was better than Broad! or even close tbh.

As one famous sportsman said ' You cannot be serious'
 
Bri said:
So do you mean better over their career or a better bowler at their best - in which case you have to compare their best with Stuart Broad's best.

Take Simon Jones, good bowler and a shame he was crippled with injury but 58 wickets and 3 5-fers cannot compare to all the wickets Broad has and he has 16 5-fers and 2 10-fers.
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Well you might want to ask Johnson since his 'best ever' hyperbole is what started this discussion but I'd go with better on average over their international career.

Even at his best, Broad was having an off game every other match. He was stealing a place for most of last season.

Total wickets is a poor way of comparing two players as anyone playing in the current era will automatically come out top. Would anyone say Broad is in the same league as Sydney Barnes or Fred Trueman?

Voice of fair play said:
Just digging a bigger hole for yourself marra ,by keeping suggesting Headley was better than Broad! or even close tbh.

As one famous sportsman said ' You cannot be serious'
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So how about the others in that list rather than focusing on one wildcard entry as fallacious proof the whole list is wonky?
 
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smoker said:
Headley was an outstanding, underrated player whose career was curtailed by terrible luck with injuries.



You really are boring as fuck with that patter mind. At the time of writing anyone could easily have named ten better seamers in the county game.
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June 2016 english qualified not in a million years. He was in the top half a dozen then as he is now and took 9 against Durham days after you said it. It seems to be your default. You don’t rate a player then blindly say there are umpteen million better players without thinking about it. You were way wrong about Broad and way wrong about Woakes.
 
smoker said:
Well you might want to ask Johnson since his 'best ever' hyperbole is what started this discussion but I'd go with better on average over their international career.

Even at his best, Broad was having an off game every other match. He was stealing a place for most of last season.

Total wickets is a poor way of comparing two players as anyone playing in the current era will automatically come out top. Would anyone say Broad is in the same league as Sydney Barnes or Fred Trueman?



So how about the others in that list rather than focusing on one wildcard entry as fallacious proof the whole list is wonky?
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Either way from whichever angle you look at, he is in the top ten never mind top 20!
 
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rentaghost said:
June 2016 english qualified not in a million years. He was in the top half a dozen then as he is now and took 9 against Durham days after you said it. It seems to be your default. You don’t rate a player then blindly say there are umpteen million better players without thinking about it. You were way wrong about Broad and way wrong about Woakes.
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There were easily ten better seamers than Woakes before the start of that season including Rushworth and Onions at Durham alone. You are prattling on with the power of hindsight like it was some sort of accepted truth.

There were two or three of you who were fapping over Woakes in a semi-ironic way for 2 years when he was poor for England, and think you deserve to be treated like the font of cricketing wisdom since he has come good.

Voice of fair play said:
Either way from which angle you look at, he is in the top ten never mind top 20!
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Rank them - genuinely interested.

I bet if you rank England seam bowlers with 10 or more tests by average and by strike rate Broad wouldn't be top 10.

That's not to say he's a shite bowler, anything but, but to claim 'best ever' is just shit hyperbole and cheapens the likes of Trueman, Tyson and Anderson.
 
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smoker said:
There were easily ten better seamers than Woakes before the start of that season including Rushworth and Onions at Durham alone. You are prattling on with the power of hindsight like it was some sort of accepted truth.

There were two or three of you who were fapping over Woakes in a semi-ironic way for 2 years when he was poor for England, and think you deserve to be treated like the font of cricketing wisdom since he has come good.



Rank them - genuinely interested.

I bet if you rank England seam bowlers with 10 or more tests by average and by strike rate Broad wouldn't be top 10.

That's not to say he's a shite bowler, anything but, but to claim 'best ever' is just shit hyperbole and cheapens the likes of Trueman, Tyson and Anderson.
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I never said best ever, bot there is a clear difference between best ever and top ten, and I think most people who have him in their top ten and everyone in their top 20,

Averages only serve a certain purpose, and with little tests mean even less, was it Adam Voges who had a average of over 61 in test cricket, over 20 tests, are we saying he was better than Hayden,Langer,Ponting etc?
 
smoker said:
Headley was an outstanding, underrated player whose career was curtailed by terrible luck with injuries.



You really are boring as fuck with that patter mind. At the time of writing anyone could easily have named ten better seamers in the county game.
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I went to the same school as Headley and his dad coached me. Headley actually left in year nine because one of the cricket coaches told him he "bowled too fast" and "would never amount to anything". Needless to say, this has been passed on through the years...

...what I'm saying is, I'd love this to be true. Unfortunately though, it's bollocks and he can't hold a candle to Broad.
 
smoker said:
Well you might want to ask Johnson since his 'best ever' hyperbole is what started this discussion but I'd go with better on average over their international career.

Even at his best, Broad was having an off game every other match. He was stealing a place for most of last season.

Total wickets is a poor way of comparing two players as anyone playing in the current era will automatically come out top. Would anyone say Broad is in the same league as Sydney Barnes or Fred Trueman?



So how about the others in that list rather than focusing on one wildcard entry as fallacious proof the whole list is wonky?
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If you start from scratch on a new topic you come up with useful, knowledgeable points but when you have a mare it’s always massive because you dig yourself deeper and deeper when you fuck up. I mean fuck me you have a bowler that has played for a decade got more test wickets than all but one fast bowler in our countries history testing himself against everyone in all conditions and you don’t have him in the top 20 behind headley and Jones. Give yourself a shake.
 
Honestly can't understand for the life of me why Jennings keeps getting in the team, Cook is definitely a loyalty thing now but he has the ability for a huge innings somewhere.
 
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