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Some rubbish written about agents

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Cat 3 said:
You mean like our insurance agent owner, our or previous hedge fund owning owner or our kitchen flogging owner or our car salesman owner
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You are talking a load of rubbish in no way can you compare previous owners with these leeches. If players realised the PFA would represent them for free they wouldn’t employ them.
 

I kind of see your point to a degree - clubs routinely try and shaft players to get the best deal for themselves so players need professional representation.

But in Cattermole's case we're talking about a player who has said numerous times how much he cares about the club, increasing his popularity with the fans and in turn giving him a stronger hand in contract negotiations.

He was at least partly responsible for a double relegation (barely played in the first due to umpteenth injury and absolute dogshit in the second). Byrne has told the club he wants to leave and will expect us to accept a cut price fee, but he isn't willing to leave a penny of his extortionate contract behind - a contract that Byrne negotiated and was partly responsible for chalking up £150m worth of debt. That's absolutely disgusting
 
KittenMittens said:
I don't 100% disagree in some sports. In the NFL, for example, where contracts are far from guaranteed and can be pretty much got out of by the teams at short notice in all but the most extreme cases, it's important to have an agent to prevent someone who has no skills to negotiate, being taken advantage of.

But football invariably is a money pit where kids are on silly money at a young age. I struggle to have sympathy for players who have earned so much, with contracts that are guaranteed unless they finger a lass out the back of the Ling Sun. Paddy McNair doesn't need protecting. I wouldn't begrudge him a move at all, but agents aren't some noble bunch fighting the good fight, they're horrible fuckers who leech constantly from the clubs we collectively all fund with our viewing and attendance habits, causing disharmony, creating situations that hurt supporters for a few extra quid in their pocket. They are part of why football today is a mess.
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Safc88 said:
It didnt though. The reason it fell through was what i said
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No if we took 2m less the buying club would happily of paid agent

JAWS said:
You are talking a load of rubbish in no way can you compare previous owners with these leeches. If players realised the PFA would represent them for free they wouldn’t employ them.
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The pfa have got an awful rep in football for negotiating transfers
 
Cat 3 said:
The problem is football is built on sand. You cannot keep unhappy employees - football contracts are probably illegal. Clubs have huge values tied up in registrations.

It’s also mostly politics - clubs are usually happier to sell than they admit. If they do want them to stay they want them to stay for less wages than they could get elsewhere
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Your op and comments to responses appear to suggest you are involved in football at some level or have been. If so I would suggest you are part of what is wrong with the game. If you haven't been involved then your apparent rationalisation of why what is happening is right is imo why reasonable people get upset with people who believe they know better but also appear not to care about having any moral standards.
 
Cat 3 said:
Correct. But that is what’s financially best for players
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That's not strictly true though is it. It may be financially best in the short term but if the move hampers development of a player tgey may be losing out on a much bigger slice of the pie later on. My issue with agents is this, they are employed by the player to act in their best interests but with clubs ultimately paying agent fees and not the player employing said agent theres a definate conflict between what's best for the agent and what may be best for the player. This can't continue and agents need to be payed for services by the player and not the customer.
 
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Cat 3 said:
As I say the club would be fu**ed if ndong Khazri kone cats McNair all stayed



Hmrc and the league tried to impose it. It’s the clubs who did not want it
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The financial status of the club is of no interest to a player. They signed a contract for x amount and should honour it. You can’t have it both ways. Player wants to move on, fine, put it in writing and we will make it happen.
What’s that? You want your full contract paying up, a free transfer and a loyalty payment. Ah right, think we have a problem here.

I think you’re missing the point as to why fans are a bit miffed.
 
Alcoholic_Author said:
With cases like Honeyman though this could do irreversible damage. A young lad who's been with the Academy since young, local, living the dream of many. Let's say this moaning was just to try and get a contract bump, he runs out against Charlton on August 2nd and gets booed for being a dickbag, subsequently he's off to a crappy Championship team like Ipswich or Millwall in a cheap deal, that team is subsequently relegated, the player ends up a free agent after his 3 years contract is up. He can never return to the club because we think he's a turncoat. Look at Colback, destined for Championship obscurity, he can never return to Sunderland, not as a player, not as a coach and not even as a guest of his former club when he's 60 years old.

Somethings are more valuable than an extra grand a week.
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That is the players decision to make
 
Cat 3 said:
I'm sorry i just dont buy into some of the vindictive rubbish written on here about agents (including our former CEO)

Agents are their to represent footballers - often young and invariably uneducated - in deals which are often multi million pound deals negotiated with multi millionaires/billionaires or by their million pound a year earning lackies.

Football is a multi billion pound business which unfortunately in recent years we have been shit at. You pay players a lot of money and sign long term contracts with them. If they turn out to be less good than expected you suck it up and pay their contract for the duration. If they turn out to be better than expected you sell them - like chattels or pieces of meat - for a fee.

Our problem is that we have not been very good at the business of football - significantly worse than we have been at the business of playing football (which we have been poor at).

Our new owners - who i have a lot of time for - are being slightly disingenuous when they hang Paddy McNair out to dry. Could we afford to keep his maybe - but the truth is it does not make business sense to have a £20k a week player in the third tier if we could sell him for £5m. The unpatetable truth is if N'dong, Khasri, Oviedo, McNair, catts etc said tomorrow we are all staying and committed to the fight we would be financially f**ked.

The personal abuse levelled at Catts and Rodwell or Bent or even at time Phillips or Hutchinson on here is pathetic. Football is a simple business you contract with a player - you are making a punt on his future performances and value. If someone else wants to pay more you match it or cash in. If no one wants to sign him and his form deteriorates you suck it up. Some clubs eg Benfica and Porto are brilliant at this - we are pathetic.

Under Poyet and at times Dick for me Catts was our best performer - hence why he got a good contract. He is entitled to see out that contract. Rodwell was on a good deal at City (he could of stayed but he wanted football) he is entitled to his contract. As for M Byrne she is entitled to earn a living and she sounds like she is better at representing players than a CEO - so what shes moved on so should we.

One final point. In a couple of years we will hopefully be a buyer of players again. These agents we are publicly abusing - the club will be schmoozing to get them to sell their players to us.
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You are attempting to conflate the fact that young men need someone representing them during the negotiations with a club, like oh, I know, a solicitor.

You then try to justify someone who artificially inserts themselves because of that in to the middle of any deal and expects both the clubs to pay handsomely for the privellage (£4.5 million agents fees last year, Ndong now reportedly 2 million on top of a £6 million deal! Nothing to do with anything of benefit to the player or either club and is an idiotic fee for essentially negotiating a contract which is done in the real world every day! They are far too powerful and are actively harming clubs And the game by trying to shift players to often which is mostly for their benefit.

Contracts could be standardised at a regulatory level so they are completely transparent and fair for all parties and probably are to a certain extent. These leaches need to be A) paid for by the player as THEIR representative and B) should have a standardised fee structure applied for negotiations with clubs. They would then be incentivised to promote their players in different, positive ways, to raise their profile.

Give your head a shake man! Just because it ‘is’ doesn’t mean it has to be.
 
Cat 3 said:
I'm sorry i just dont buy into some of the vindictive rubbish written on here about agents (including our former CEO)

Agents are their to represent footballers - often young and invariably uneducated - in deals which are often multi million pound deals negotiated with multi millionaires/billionaires or by their million pound a year earning lackies.

Football is a multi billion pound business which unfortunately in recent years we have been shit at. You pay players a lot of money and sign long term contracts with them. If they turn out to be less good than expected you suck it up and pay their contract for the duration. If they turn out to be better than expected you sell them - like chattels or pieces of meat - for a fee.

Our problem is that we have not been very good at the business of football - significantly worse than we have been at the business of playing football (which we have been poor at).

Our new owners - who i have a lot of time for - are being slightly disingenuous when they hang Paddy McNair out to dry. Could we afford to keep his maybe - but the truth is it does not make business sense to have a £20k a week player in the third tier if we could sell him for £5m. The unpatetable truth is if N'dong, Khasri, Oviedo, McNair, catts etc said tomorrow we are all staying and committed to the fight we would be financially f**ked.

The personal abuse levelled at Catts and Rodwell or Bent or even at time Phillips or Hutchinson on here is pathetic. Football is a simple business you contract with a player - you are making a punt on his future performances and value. If someone else wants to pay more you match it or cash in. If no one wants to sign him and his form deteriorates you suck it up. Some clubs eg Benfica and Porto are brilliant at this - we are pathetic.

Under Poyet and at times Dick for me Catts was our best performer - hence why he got a good contract. He is entitled to see out that contract. Rodwell was on a good deal at City (he could of stayed but he wanted football) he is entitled to his contract. As for M Byrne she is entitled to earn a living and she sounds like she is better at representing players than a CEO - so what shes moved on so should we.

One final point. In a couple of years we will hopefully be a buyer of players again. These agents we are publicly abusing - the club will be schmoozing to get them to sell their players to us.
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JAWS said:
You are talking a load of rubbish in no way can you compare previous owners with these leeches. If players realised the PFA would represent them for free they wouldn’t employ them.
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So a hedge fund owner is more morally virtuous than a football agent. Really

Buying distressed property or distressed govt debt is virtuous. Or betting against a companies success

JAWS said:
How do you know that, on the evidence of your post tonight your talking a load of rubbish.
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I know people in football - not agents mainly
 
Cat 3 said:
No if we took 2m less the buying club would happily of paid agent



The pfa have got an awful rep in football for negotiating transfers
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So what you’re saying is that we should have paid the agent twice? By dropping our price by 2M we are effectively paying the buying clubs astronomical agents fees and that is after already paying the selling agent fees.
You think this is the right thing to do and that 2M is a reasonable fee for the agent?

Do you think that an agent stating his player will never ever ever play for Sunderland again is ethical representation?

Agents are pure scum it’s that simple.
 
Cat 3 said:
I'm sorry i just dont buy into some of the vindictive rubbish written on here about agents (including our former CEO)

Agents are their to represent footballers - often young and invariably uneducated - in deals which are often multi million pound deals negotiated with multi millionaires/billionaires or by their million pound a year earning lackies.

Football is a multi billion pound business which unfortunately in recent years we have been shit at. You pay players a lot of money and sign long term contracts with them. If they turn out to be less good than expected you suck it up and pay their contract for the duration. If they turn out to be better than expected you sell them - like chattels or pieces of meat - for a fee.

Our problem is that we have not been very good at the business of football - significantly worse than we have been at the business of playing football (which we have been poor at).

Our new owners - who i have a lot of time for - are being slightly disingenuous when they hang Paddy McNair out to dry. Could we afford to keep his maybe - but the truth is it does not make business sense to have a £20k a week player in the third tier if we could sell him for £5m. The unpatetable truth is if N'dong, Khasri, Oviedo, McNair, catts etc said tomorrow we are all staying and committed to the fight we would be financially f**ked.

The personal abuse levelled at Catts and Rodwell or Bent or even at time Phillips or Hutchinson on here is pathetic. Football is a simple business you contract with a player - you are making a punt on his future performances and value. If someone else wants to pay more you match it or cash in. If no one wants to sign him and his form deteriorates you suck it up. Some clubs eg Benfica and Porto are brilliant at this - we are pathetic.

Under Poyet and at times Dick for me Catts was our best performer - hence why he got a good contract. He is entitled to see out that contract. Rodwell was on a good deal at City (he could of stayed but he wanted football) he is entitled to his contract. As for M Byrne she is entitled to earn a living and she sounds like she is better at representing players than a CEO - so what shes moved on so should we.

One final point. In a couple of years we will hopefully be a buyer of players again. These agents we are publicly abusing - the club will be schmoozing to get them to sell their players to us.
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Marco, is that you ?
 
Bangkok Blackcat said:
Unfortunately, agents are an integral part of football now, so we have to learn to live with them.

However, one rule that needs to be imposed is all agents salaries must be paid by the players.
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Although the clubs do pay for the players agents. The players are deemed to have a taxable benefit on that payment so they have to pay tax on the payment.
 
Cat 3 said:
I'm sorry i just dont buy into some of the vindictive rubbish written on here about agents (including our former CEO)

Agents are their to represent footballers - often young and invariably uneducated - in deals which are often multi million pound deals negotiated with multi millionaires/billionaires or by their million pound a year earning lackies.

Football is a multi billion pound business which unfortunately in recent years we have been shit at. You pay players a lot of money and sign long term contracts with them. If they turn out to be less good than expected you suck it up and pay their contract for the duration. If they turn out to be better than expected you sell them - like chattels or pieces of meat - for a fee.

Our problem is that we have not been very good at the business of football - significantly worse than we have been at the business of playing football (which we have been poor at).

Our new owners - who i have a lot of time for - are being slightly disingenuous when they hang Paddy McNair out to dry. Could we afford to keep his maybe - but the truth is it does not make business sense to have a £20k a week player in the third tier if we could sell him for £5m. The unpatetable truth is if N'dong, Khasri, Oviedo, McNair, catts etc said tomorrow we are all staying and committed to the fight we would be financially f**ked.

The personal abuse levelled at Catts and Rodwell or Bent or even at time Phillips or Hutchinson on here is pathetic. Football is a simple business you contract with a player - you are making a punt on his future performances and value. If someone else wants to pay more you match it or cash in. If no one wants to sign him and his form deteriorates you suck it up. Some clubs eg Benfica and Porto are brilliant at this - we are pathetic.

Under Poyet and at times Dick for me Catts was our best performer - hence why he got a good contract. He is entitled to see out that contract. Rodwell was on a good deal at City (he could of stayed but he wanted football) he is entitled to his contract. As for M Byrne she is entitled to earn a living and she sounds like she is better at representing players than a CEO - so what shes moved on so should we.

One final point. In a couple of years we will hopefully be a buyer of players again. These agents we are publicly abusing - the club will be schmoozing to get them to sell their players to us.
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There

Cat 3 said:
no one ive met people on both sides. football is all about money. clubs and there owners are the greediest and richest
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Their
 
Cat 3 said:
I'm sorry i just dont buy into some of the vindictive rubbish written on here about agents (including our former CEO)

Agents are their to represent footballers - often young and invariably uneducated - in deals which are often multi million pound deals negotiated with multi millionaires/billionaires or by their million pound a year earning lackies.

Football is a multi billion pound business which unfortunately in recent years we have been shit at. You pay players a lot of money and sign long term contracts with them. If they turn out to be less good than expected you suck it up and pay their contract for the duration. If they turn out to be better than expected you sell them - like chattels or pieces of meat - for a fee.

Our problem is that we have not been very good at the business of football - significantly worse than we have been at the business of playing football (which we have been poor at).

Our new owners - who i have a lot of time for - are being slightly disingenuous when they hang Paddy McNair out to dry. Could we afford to keep his maybe - but the truth is it does not make business sense to have a £20k a week player in the third tier if we could sell him for £5m. The unpatetable truth is if N'dong, Khasri, Oviedo, McNair, catts etc said tomorrow we are all staying and committed to the fight we would be financially f**ked.

The personal abuse levelled at Catts and Rodwell or Bent or even at time Phillips or Hutchinson on here is pathetic. Football is a simple business you contract with a player - you are making a punt on his future performances and value. If someone else wants to pay more you match it or cash in. If no one wants to sign him and his form deteriorates you suck it up. Some clubs eg Benfica and Porto are brilliant at this - we are pathetic.

Under Poyet and at times Dick for me Catts was our best performer - hence why he got a good contract. He is entitled to see out that contract. Rodwell was on a good deal at City (he could of stayed but he wanted football) he is entitled to his contract. As for M Byrne she is entitled to earn a living and she sounds like she is better at representing players than a CEO - so what shes moved on so should we.

One final point. In a couple of years we will hopefully be a buyer of players again. These agents we are publicly abusing - the club will be schmoozing to get them to sell their players to us.
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I agree. Still scum bags like.
 
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