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this if we go bust rubbish

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The original OP might be a mag. But there is a serious point here. Short has made an enormous loss on his investment (to a large part due to terrible decisions he has made but that doesn’t change the current position). Our cost base is huge and our revenue is not covering it. Currently Short is covering our ongoing losses. If he stopped doing that we’d have to go into Administration because we could not continue to trade.

He might think it is worth covering the losses on the basis that ultimately he will get a better price for a going concern than he would realise in an Administration. At some point that calculation will tip and he will think he can cut his losses better by pulling the plug than waiting for a buyer at a price that makes sense for him.

In Administration if a buyer pops up to buy more cheaply off the Administrator then great we simply have the points deduction (which will probably mean relegation) but we continue as the same club. If the Administrator can’t find a buyer then we get wound up. A new Club might well be started but it is not certain that it will be accepted by all supporters as their Sunderland. Rangers clearly is universally accepted by Rangers supporter but for example “Scarborough Athletic” does not have the supporter base that Scarborough FC (a Club formed, ironically, in 1879 and in the Football League in many of our lifetimes) had. My own hunch is that any AFC Sunderland would be more of a Sunderland team than the Sunderland/South Tyneside/County Durham club that exists at present.
 
JohnM said:
The original OP might be a mag. But there is a serious point here. Short has made an enormous loss on his investment (to a large part due to terrible decisions he has made but that doesn’t change the current position). Our cost base is huge and our revenue is not covering it. Currently Short is covering our ongoing losses. If he stopped doing that we’d have to go into Administration because we could not continue to trade.

He might think it is worth covering the losses on the basis that ultimately he will get a better price for a going concern than he would realise in an Administration. At some point that calculation will tip and he will think he can cut his losses better by pulling the plug than waiting for a buyer at a price that makes sense for him.

In Administration if a buyer pops up to buy more cheaply off the Administrator then great we simply have the points deduction (which will probably mean relegation) but we continue as the same club. If the Administrator can’t find a buyer then we get wound up. A new Club might well be started but it is not certain that it will be accepted by all supporters as their Sunderland. Rangers clearly is universally accepted by Rangers supporter but for example “Scarborough Athletic” does not have the supporter base that Scarborough FC (a Club formed, ironically, in 1879 and in the Football League in many of our lifetimes) had. My own hunch is that any AFC Sunderland would be more of a Sunderland team than the Sunderland/South Tyneside/County Durham club that exists at present.
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Daylight said:
Thought not!
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Credit for what? For a fraction of Bain's wage, I could also have sold everything that wasn't nailed down, and made a whole host of redundencies (at the same time as forking out for the players to go on holiday to New York), all while the team plummeted. I could also have blindly defended an abysmal manager, and then hired another.

What I likely could not have done is cut all these costs while ensuring the team remained competitive, as that would require skills that I don't have. I just find it a shame that our CEO is also completely incapable.
 
The company goes bust, the owners and creditors lose money but the Football club always goes on because it belongs to the fans.
 
JohnM said:
In Administration if a buyer pops up to buy more cheaply off the Administrator then great we simply have the points deduction (which will probably mean relegation) but we continue as the same club. If the Administrator can’t find a buyer then we get wound up.
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Or the Administrator might manage to come to an agreement with the creditors the business can continue as a going concern under the current ownership. An Administrator’s job is to try and keep a company going as a going concern, winding up would be a last resort.
 
Is there an example of a league club with our levels of debt? Coventry very nearly went to the wall and dropped right through the leagues with a fair bit less. Our stadium is our biggest asset and has been mortgaged to SBC, I believe.
 
JohnM said:
The original OP might be a mag. But there is a serious point here. Short has made an enormous loss on his investment (to a large part due to terrible decisions he has made but that doesn’t change the current position). Our cost base is huge and our revenue is not covering it. Currently Short is covering our ongoing losses. If he stopped doing that we’d have to go into Administration because we could not continue to trade.

He might think it is worth covering the losses on the basis that ultimately he will get a better price for a going concern than he would realise in an Administration. At some point that calculation will tip and he will think he can cut his losses better by pulling the plug than waiting for a buyer at a price that makes sense for him.

In Administration if a buyer pops up to buy more cheaply off the Administrator then great we simply have the points deduction (which will probably mean relegation) but we continue as the same club. If the Administrator can’t find a buyer then we get wound up. A new Club might well be started but it is not certain that it will be accepted by all supporters as their Sunderland. Rangers clearly is universally accepted by Rangers supporter but for example “Scarborough Athletic” does not have the supporter base that Scarborough FC (a Club formed, ironically, in 1879 and in the Football League in many of our lifetimes) had. My own hunch is that any AFC Sunderland would be more of a Sunderland team than the Sunderland/South Tyneside/County Durham club that exists at present.
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Ultimately Short stopped covering losses a few years ago when he refinanced with the SBC loan IIRC, which probably sees him as the biggest creditor now. Currently selling players (i.e. Pickford's 25m will be spread over 4/5 years) is what will be covering what were losses (or rather paying the SBC loan), but probably aren't losses anymore due to cuts. Administration doesn't make any sense at this stage given the biggest creditor will likely be Short himself. What's he going to do, structure a deal to pay himself 50p in the pound back? That would require a lot of f***ing about for no gain.
 
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JohnM said:
In Administration if a buyer pops up to buy more cheaply off the Administrator then great we simply have the points deduction (which will probably mean relegation) but we continue as the same club. If the Administrator can’t find a buyer then we get wound up.
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Simply have the points deduction, no we'd have debt restructured to the main creditors, you don't get out debt free. It may be 20p in the pound we pay back or it may be 60p etc, but we'd still have debt.
 
Slugster said:
Seen loads of people saying if we go into administration that the club won't exist anymore,is there an example of a league club that this has happened too,because I'm under the impression all debts are squashed and any new investor gets to buy the club(very cheap) with a clean slate and no debts, may be wrong though
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Rangers
 
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