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More investigations for the mags from HMRC?

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pavarotti1980 said:
They have a billionaire owner who if given 12 month to pay a multi million pound fine would sell some of his assets as from the information he is asset rich. I dont think it would create too many problems for him financially but to suggest the HMRC will just say forget about it and commence with a winding up order is crazy.

The hearing would allow for representations to be made to ensure that payment could be made
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Ashley has almost a billion quid in shares if he has to sell off £100m of shares to pay off a debt his company sports direct could lose another £2-300m in value he won’t do that.
 

The Fish said:
Yup, one is dodgy, the other two are results of that dodginess.

As it stands nobody knows what will happen, yet on here people are convincing themselves that Newcastle will be kicked out of the league, fined £500m* and issued a winding up order.

*just curious, where this figure has come from? I heard they were investigating 5 or so transfers. £500m seems a touch high, unless we've signed Neymar on the sly?
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The five transfers were reported as being the tip of the iceberg
 
horselover said:
We all know there won't be a winding up order but a heavy points deduction or even relegation cannot be ruled out at this stage. That's on top of a possible heavy transfer embargo and the prospect of paying possibly tens of millions of pounds back. Anyone involved with NUFC should be a little worried at the back of their minds because this isn't going away any time soon
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Conversely there could be a light or non-existent points deduction and relegation is up to the football league, not HMRC. transfer embargos are barely worth the paper they're written on as we've seen with PSG and Barcelona. And of course there may be no kind of transfer embargo at all.

What is most likely? Is it the relegation and hobbling of a famous English football club? Or fines meted out by the HMRC and the FA?

Between the 2 extremes, (No recourse at all and the club's doom) there's a huge variety of punishments. Yet there's been plenty of talk of winding up orders, relegations, "heavy points deductions", transfer embargos and so on. All on the heavy handed side of the spectrum. I understand why of course, there's a measure of wishful thinking, but if you're a little more objective you'd probably expect fines.

e.g. West Ham and Chelsea also had papers taken, if one of them are involved (and we weren't), I doubt RTG would be predicting quite the apocalypse for those clubs.
 
Granted they most likely won’t get wound up but their is a very real chance they could take a proper spanking. When they went after Redknapp they spend £8m on solicitors to try and prove he owed about 50 grand had he lost he would have had to pay the 50 grand plus the £8m they are ruthless.
 
The Fish said:
You're convincing yourself that Charnley is certain to be dumped and go to jail if convicted, for a start.

Also, I said convincing, not convinced. there's a pertinent difference.
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You just can't stop speaking for other people can you, you don't know better than me what I'm thinking.

I'm giving my opinion based on the likely outcome of what I can currently see and from my own experience.

'Convincing myself' would suggest, to a degree, I'm actively attempting to force that opinion which I'm certainly not.

It's already my opinion that Ashley would rather stab a colleague in the back, I don't need to convince myself.

It's also my opinion that a company managing director would receive a custodial sentence if proved guilty of serious and deliberate tax fraud.

You can't tell other people that they're deliberately 'convincing themselves'.
 
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The Fish said:
Which 5 transfers?

Does tip of the iceberg mean tip of the iceberg for Newcastle, or for the wider world of football?
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Just from reading the original report (that's all the info I have):

HMRC’s Operation Loom officers believe Newcastle “systematically abused the tax system and therefore all payments to agents made by Newcastle were potentially the subject of criminal proceedings”.

They revealed that the five cases of suspected fraud involving the Tyneside club may just be the tip of the iceberg of what could be set to become one of English football’s biggest-ever tax investigations.

A little ambiguous
 
nordic said:
Ashley has almost a billion quid in shares if he has to sell off £100m of shares to pay off a debt his company sports direct could lose another £2-300m in value he won’t do that.
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He doesnt just own the tat shop you know

nordic said:
Granted they most likely won’t get wound up but their is a very real chance they could take a proper spanking. When they went after Redknapp they spend £8m on solicitors to try and prove he owed about 50 grand had he lost he would have had to pay the 50 grand plus the £8m they are ruthless.
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Instead the taxpayer funded it. Surely that isnt in the public interest to spend so much for such little potential gain. Ruthless or reckless?
 
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AlpineExile said:
Here's a little suggestion petal:

Why don't you be a dear and read the article that was linked in the frigging OP? Then you wouldn't need to keep asking us questions that have been answered by the self same article?
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:lol:

I did, this was the funniest bit ......

"AROUND half a billion pounds worth of
You must be logged on to see external links
transfer deals face forensic scrutiny from a major tax fraud probe."
 
Hawyatt Earp said:
Ha!

All predictions are based on people's personality and faith in their own expectations. Newcastle fans are being protective and hopeful of limited punishment. Steve30000000's unrelenting depression and cynicism makes him think they'll be fined 42p and awarded automatic entry into the Champions league. My naive optimism is telling me you'll end up out of the football league.

In reality though, if everyone looked at the facts they know of now and the criminal accusations being made, openly by the HMRC, that club are in a lot of trouble, come what may.
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Don't be funny, mate. Other premier clubs get away with a lot of shit, it's obvious as fuck that they won't be expelled from the league.
 
The Fish said:
Conversely there could be a light or non-existent points deduction and relegation is up to the football league, not HMRC. transfer embargos are barely worth the paper they're written on as we've seen with PSG and Barcelona. And of course there may be no kind of transfer embargo at all.

What is most likely? Is it the relegation and hobbling of a famous English football club? Or fines meted out by the HMRC and the FA?

Between the 2 extremes, (No recourse at all and the club's doom) there's a huge variety of punishments. Yet there's been plenty of talk of winding up orders, relegations, "heavy points deductions", transfer embargos and so on. All on the heavy handed side of the spectrum. I understand why of course, there's a measure of wishful thinking, but if you're a little more objective you'd probably expect fines.

e.g. West Ham and Chelsea also had papers taken, if one of them are involved (and we weren't), I doubt RTG would be predicting quite the apocalypse for those clubs.
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The only reason West Ham and Chelsea are been mentioned is the Demba Ba transfer to and from Newcastle, I think HMRC are more interested in the main source which seems to be Newcastle. I don't know what evidence they have on these computers and mobile phones but they seem pretty confident of a successful outcome to me. If Chelsea and West Ham have done anything wrong then the HMRC will do them anarl. No team is too big to be relegated by breaking football rules as Juventus found out a while back.
And obviously if Chelsea or West Ham were involved and newcastle weren't then you're absolutely right, we on rtg wouldn't give a toss, but don't forget we're your bitter rivals, so obviously we're interested at the thought of your demise ;)
 
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Grumpy Old Man said:
The only way that would happen is if HMRC sought a winding up order, which they could do if tax, penalties and interest assessed remained unpaid, or if the High Court deemed the company's dissolution to be in the public interest. In the interests of realism, I should also point out that the chances of that happening are probably vanishingly small.
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I'll take those chances.
 
The Fish said:
Which 5 transfers?

Does tip of the iceberg mean tip of the iceberg for Newcastle, or for the wider world of football?
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Who knows the real ins and outs of it all, the end of the day everyone will just have to wait and see the end outcome. if you've done nowt wrong then fine if you have then you will just have to take any punishment whatever that will be on the chin
 
mr chuckles said:
Who knows the real ins and outs of it all, the end of the day everyone will just have to wait and see the end outcome. if you've done nowt wrong then fine if you have then you will just have to take any punishment whatever that will be on the chin
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For Ashley and Charnley there will be plenty of chin choice
 
Reiver said:
You keep coming on saying what people are thinking, why not post what you think and leave it at that.

I haven't seen a single poster 'convinced of anything' or in this 'frenzy' you claim ...... you're just seeing what you want to see, ironic from your other comments.



Would I be right in saying it could involve incoming and outgoing transfers, wages, agents fees, other income from TV etc and advertising deals with Ashley.

Some appear to believe it's just the sum total of a few transfer fees.
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The court papers made available so far in the judgement of the application to have the search ruled illegal only refer to arrangements for payments to player and agents. Most detail has been given in the Demba Ba transfer, where it's alleged (need to choose my words carefully here) that payments represented as being for agency services were, in fact, contractual obligations to the player. This evades PAYE and employer's NI, and also permits an inflated input VAT claim, since the whole payment is shown as a VATable purchase of agency services. This seems to be the allegation in the Ba case. Of course, it's unlikely that HMRC will have shown their full hand, as they haven't yet had a chance to examine the documents seized from NUFC.
 
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