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I think we'll win it

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Its mainly the quality of the league that has me optimistic. The league winners last season had a shocking goalkeeper, a centre half who had just been a key part in one of the worst teams in premier league history, a centre mid who was renowned for being shit and having a weird head, a striker who utterly failed at premier league level. The league is full of players like Paul McShane who look quality and finish high because of the opposition they're playing against.

Maximus said:
This is your "Bob Stokoe's Hat" moment isn't it Ali? :lol:
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I've not got a bad record on this forum and I'm risking it all here.
 
hexhamali said:
Its mainly the quality of the league that has me optimistic. The league winners last season had a shocking goalkeeper, a centre half who had just been a key part in one of the worst teams in premier league history, a centre mid who was renowned for being shit and having a weird head, a striker who utterly failed at premier league level. The league is full of players like Paul McShane who look quality and finish high because of the opposition they're playing against.


I've not got a bad record on this forum and I'm risking it all here.
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You say that, but if somehow the headline in the Echo was 'Grayson closes in on loan moves for Darlow, Clark, Shelvey and Gayle' then my optimism would increase massively. They'd be nailed on starters and would massively improve us. Khazri and Lens at a push (who seemingly don't want to be here) aside, they'd EASILY be our best players.

They were 9/4 massive favourites to win this league last season, we are 10th favourites and you can actually get us at 25/1 to win it at one bookmaker.

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This isn't just this board a bit deflated about us losing 0-5 to Celtic reserves, this is a neutral party assessing a number of factors and pricing Boro at 6/1 to win the league, Fulham at 7/1 and Villa at 15/2 whereas in massive contrast, we are 25/1. We are a lot weaker than some of the better sides in this league.
 
The Bridge Lad said:
You say that, but if somehow the headline in the Echo was 'Grayson closes in on loan moves for Darlow, Clark, Shelvey and Gayle' then my optimism would increase massively. They'd be nailed on starters and would massively improve us. Khazri and Lens at a push (who seemingly don't want to be here) aside, they'd EASILY be our best players.

They were 9/4 massive favourites to win this league last season, we are 10th favourites and you can actually get us at 25/1 to win it at one bookmaker.

You must be logged on to see external links


This isn't just this board a bit deflated about us losing 0-5 to Celtic reserves, this is a neutral party assessing a number of factors and pricing Boro at 6/1 to win the league, Fulham at 7/1 and Villa at 15/2 whereas in massive contrast, we are 25/1. We are a lot weaker than some of the better sides in this league.
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I think if you look at our squad it has quality basically all the way through it. You say they'd easily be our better players but I just don't see that. The keeper situation is obviously extremely dodgy right now. Defensively we've got Jones who is a lower league premier league player, O'Shea who has too many medals to count, Kone who SHOULD be too good for this league (I'd ship him out because he doesn't want to be here), Oviedo who is also a premier league quality player, plus the loans from Everton who could prove good signings.In midfield we have Cattermole who has barely played a minute outside the top flight, N'Dong who I think most rate fairly highly, Lens, Khazri and Watmore who have more than enough quality to tear championship defences to shreds. We're light up front but hopefully we can address that with incoming transfers and the young lads like Maja and Asoro coming through. I just don't buy the view on here that our team is shite, to me it looks a lot better than most championship teams bar Boro (I actually think they're more likely than us to win it).
 
We would have struggled in the championship last season without Defoe and Pickford they are gone replaced by much weaker replacements, the rest of the squad punched above their weight and even half of them( on loan) were crap and got found out, we are shit and mid table will be optimistic
 
hexhamali said:
I think if you look at our squad it has quality basically all the way through it. You say they'd easily be our better players but I just don't see that. The keeper situation is obviously extremely dodgy right now. Defensively we've got Jones who is a lower league premier league player, O'Shea who has too many medals to count, Kone who SHOULD be too good for this league (I'd ship him out because he doesn't want to be here), Oviedo who is also a premier league quality player, plus the loans from Everton who could prove good signings.In midfield we have Cattermole who has barely played a minute outside the top flight, N'Dong who I think most rate fairly highly, Lens, Khazri and Watmore who have more than enough quality to tear championship defences to shreds. We're light up front but hopefully we can address that with incoming transfers and the young lads like Maja and Asoro coming through. I just don't buy the view on here that our team is shite, to me it looks a lot better than most championship teams bar Boro (I actually think they're more likely than us to win it).
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I'm reading what you are saying and do agree with some of the players you mention, but i think Jones will be pretty average in this league and I'd definitely prefer Yedlin. If O'Shea is near the XI even in this league then i will be concerned, he is done IMO. Kone bar a 2/3 month spell has been terrible far more than he has been good and is living off that spell at the back end of last season - unmotivated or not, there are too many times he comes across as a cumbersome oaf who has too many mistakes in him. Jury very much still out on N'Dong. Watmore could be huge for us but let's just hope he can get back to the levels he was showing before injury.

I get that you want to be optimistic and think as a lot of these players had 2/3/4 (or more) years with us in the top flight then they should be able to cut it in this lower level, but at the same time you must look at those odds and question why we are not amongst the favourites and lower than the likes of Brentford at some. These aren't mags setting the price to have a laugh, or a work experience lad directly responding to negativity on social media. These are experts in the financial division with a neutral perspective and no agenda, yet they have us down for a much lower chance than our supposed rivals.

Granted, bookies can get things wrong - Leicester, Greece, Huddersfield etc spring to mind, but in most cases they are right and I have the mindset that those prices are generally what should happen, maybe give or take in certain situations, but generally right and if a team or individual do different to that then they have either done a lot better than expected (aforementioned examples) or f'd up like Villa last year and Chelsea the year before.
 
hexhamali said:
I think if you look at our squad it has quality basically all the way through it. You say they'd easily be our better players but I just don't see that. The keeper situation is obviously extremely dodgy right now. Defensively we've got Jones who is a lower league premier league player, O'Shea who has too many medals to count, Kone who SHOULD be too good for this league (I'd ship him out because he doesn't want to be here), Oviedo who is also a premier league quality player, plus the loans from Everton who could prove good signings.In midfield we have Cattermole who has barely played a minute outside the top flight, N'Dong who I think most rate fairly highly, Lens, Khazri and Watmore who have more than enough quality to tear championship defences to shreds. We're light up front but hopefully we can address that with incoming transfers and the young lads like Maja and Asoro coming through. I just don't buy the view on here that our team is shite, to me it looks a lot better than most championship teams bar Boro (I actually think they're more likely than us to win it).
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O'Shea can't handle pace. Plenty of that will come his way.
Jones can't handle pace. Plenty of that will come his way.
Kone, Khazri and Lens won't be here.
Oviedo will break down at some point.
Watmore has had a serious injury so who knows.
Asoro isn't good enough.
Maja is too light weight and will be bullied into obscurity.
Jury out on Galloway.

Cattermole, Browning and N'Dong will hold their own and you're right about the keeper crisis.

Not quite so rosey now is it ?!
 
What have people seen to suggest we'll do anything other than struggle? Have I missed something? I know it's only pre-season but we look a million miles away from being even a half decent team.
 
Think we will end up in the play offs personally. I remember a smaller club in the North East lost a pre season game to a league one side 6-1 and ended up getting over 100 points. Today was shocking but it is just a friendly.
 
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